Oh dear. Does anybody know when the African Nations Cup starts, Chelsea will be missing a few key players when that's on, Arsenal, too.

I think in January. Chelsea will have a really hard time in the New Year with all these game every 2-3 days without Drogba, Mikel and Essien.

Much worse is that Bochum will miss Joel Epalle!

Just to remind you, the FA Cuo is regarded as very, very prestigeous.
It's the oldest football trophy in the world, and winning it is almost as big as winning the league.

Locke is the man.

Arsenal's situation is a little worrying. Hleb RvP and Fabregas are all out and you have 4/5 players that will be leaving for the African Cup of Nations next month, it really is a key period for you and your title bid.

Ur the one who brought up the coppa debate, not me ... Hence came what i thought about that fa cup and carling cup trophies. Same as what I think about all the domestic cups ... they dont mean nothing IMO. But of course others might disagree .. but, to me all these domestic cups are no where in comparison to the league or CL.

Why I brought up Villa, is if i called them cr@p or if i called them off (not that i would, i actually like them bcz of u ), you would be the first to get all emotional and stuff. Yet on Milan, u seem to be more open to other suggestions But when u actually weight it up, there is nothing to weight up

And yes Milan won it several times (5 or 4 to be exact) ... so what, does it make it one of Milan's targets ?! It ain't even an actual target for Milan, is all I'm saying ... and recently Milan send in the reserves to play that competition. So whats ur point ?

Is it very low ?! When I think about how much this very team has put up with all the critics and came out good in the end ? that there actually are people that don't rate Milan

Do i care ? i really don't. But i was shocked to read what u wrote .. that Arsenal was the best in the world. When clearly Arsenal are not! They are playing good football and are a very entertaining side .. but the best in the world ?! Anyways, I'm basing my assumption that Milan are the best in the world on pure facts, both in UEFA and FIFA! Moreover, I see only Milan as the #1 club in the world. Maybe because this club (and this very team) has dominated both domestically and international for several years on the highest of levels. Name one club that has come close to what this very team has accomplished ?? None.

p.s. you want to call Villa or Arsenal the best in the world, from now on .. go ahead, but I now know u aren't basing ur views on facts and on success. Rather the team that dominates the EPL

If you two don't stop, my fish doll is going to drop you in the piranha tank with Moratti and Moggi.

I think we're all clear that you've got very different views on the quality of cup competition and on who the current best team is. Don't think you're going to convince each other or anyone else at this point, so....basta. Please.

Unless you want to go swim with the fishies, Moggi, and Moratti......

no, no ... it's alright. Milan suck ... Milan are the worst team currently playing, they will fall into serie B

Villa rule !!!


Oh and Arsenal are gonna win the treble this season !




See Tennie, we aren't disagreeing at all

Can I have my old tank back

I think we're both talking about very different things.

I'm saying Arsenal are the best team in the World right now. What they did last season doesn't mean anything, because it's not the same season, I'm just basing them on their performances so far this season. Milan are the best team since the turn of the cuntury, but not right now.

It has nothing to do with who is the dominant team in the EPL - I believe it's the best league at the moment - but it doesn't mean it's top team is the best in the World. Arsenal and Inter are both a long way ahead of everyone for me right now. That's my opinion, and that's all.

(P.S. I'm like this with all my teams, I am critical when I feel the need to be, it's the way I and many other people are.)

Hmm... not far from it. But I think Inter are that.

(when you love and care about someone/something you hurt to see him down and try to help him up. Closing your eyes to the problem is not helping at all, it only makes things worse...)

Been having some productive sessions with your therapist I see.

-----Possible Angry Rant alert-----------

I don't like calling this team cr@p. It's the number 1 reason, why I get pissed and nag a lot of my good friends on PM.

There's a difference between saying...
'This team is cr@p' and 'This team is playing like cr@p'. That's I think what R7 is saying.

Maybe a lot of people mean option B, but it comes out as option A. But by then, the arguments and the counter-arguments have gone beyond the point of recall.

Carlo was a clown without a future last season. Then he won the CL, and the voices quietened a bit. Now they're back again. Gila was a retard who was pegging us back. Now we're all rather non-commital about it. Last season Seedorf was a fat assed sloth, who we were better of coating in sugar candy and mailing it to Pana's address in Athens. Suddenly towards the end, everyone was like 'Clarence is good, he's still got it!'.

You know what, maybe it's just passion speaking, and it comes out in bursts, I'm not casting doubts about anybody's loyalties, but when people come out and make a statement something along the lines of...

"This team is sh!t, a disgrace. Fire X,Y,Z and all the others before them"

and then a couple of months later, "What a Milan, I love this club..ad infinitum"

It's not really our fault we take this at face value now is it.

I don't need to name names, last season there was an entire congregation of people who said, we were going nowhere or even worse. It would seem they were proved wrong. Now it's started again this season, and what really gets me about this is, what else can Milan do to win a little faith. Last season, a rather pissed off Paolo made the statement asking fans should come out and support them considering what all Milan have done for them.

Maybe R7, myself, Nova, mishie,10ster (since we seem to be in the minority who are living in the 'dream world') are different people. Maybe we're not just as competitive. But in the long run, a 'bad season' (I don't agree we've had a bad season, to be honest, last season was a pretty good one!, and this season has just started) is not really the end of the world now is it. I don't agree with the philosophy of attacking the team when it is playing badly. Maybe I just believe in constructive criticism.

In 2000 for instance we placed sixth.In 2001 and 2002 fourth. All three times we were below Inter. In 2003,then bingo we won it. And by a lead of 11 points too. So when R7 says, don't freak out, because the board is not going to let things slide too much and I agree with him, it's based on past experience. 12 years for me and a million for him. So when at that point we're ridiculed and accused of living in a 'dream world' is it really our fault, that we scratch our head in the best of times, and make Tennie bring out her fish tank at the worst of times?

I love the forum, I've met so many people here and exposed myself unconsciously to cultures I might never have staying in the southern tip of India, please don't think I don't appreciate you as people. Maybe I've even grown as a person thanks to all of you. Personally I have tried to give you all the same respect and steer clear of angering anyone here. If I have, I'm sorry it was unintentional.


As I understand, people come up with an outburst out of passion, and then say it's because they love the team. But often in the outburst, they end up saying things you really wouldn't expect a supporter to say. It's just that it wouldn't be too difficult, to maybe think through that post before hitting the 'Add Reply' button right? I mean the previous match before the Lazio demolition?? And then after that?

Too many posts made in the heat of the moment, and then they are taken up at face value resulting in an argument. I mean it would be better like 10ster says to write 'This team is inconsistent and we may have to reassess a few things(to be followed by what those things are)', which is so obviously the truth as opposed to ' This team is a sh!tty disgrace, and we should fire Galliani', which pisses me off every bloody time.

Or if you can't help it, at least prefix an Angry Rant label or something.
I like this management. They make bad decisions sometimes, but if for every bad decision you fired people, things would get hilarious. Generally, I'd say we have the best management among all the clubs in the world. They've stayed true to the Milan philosophy and never once sold out on the club. I don't think it's fair to criticize for not buying players, when we have no idea about the finances of the club and where the money's been spent. How many of us knew when we were crying bloody murder over transfers, that OUR club spent over 200 mill dollars, trying to make the San Siro meet new regulations? Or did it never strike you as odd, that Don Silvio would have to open his wallet to buy Ronaldo when Ronaldo's fee was a measly 10 mill?? That inspite of winning the CL, and finishing 4th in the league, selling Sheva for a billion pounds, all we got was a profit of 1 million euros?? Ronaldo would eat through that in a month. If the club decides it needs to keep finances healthy, then it's good enough for me. I've seen where Leeds United are, thank you very much. I'd rather take a couple of 'bad seasons' (4th place and CL, how tragic for us!!), than see us being talked of as the 'once-great' Milan.


We can weep for where we are now, and curse Galliani, since we have that luxury. It's not really like we OWE anything to the club right. I mean we can say bring Drogba and R10 altogether, and if they flop- 'Hey it's not my 100 million euros, too bad , now let's try another combination of super stars!'; that's not really an option for Braida and Galliani. So to criticize, without even knowing what their responsibilities entail is a bit presumptous.


Col. Jessop has a dialogue that goes 'I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide, then questions the manner in which I provide it! I'd rather you just said thank you and went on your way'.

If you'd think about it just a little, Carletto, Galliani, Don Silvio, Paolo, Clarence or anyone of those 'hate-figures' could just tweak those lines a little bit, and throw it right back at our face. And you know what, I wouldn't have a reply. Would you? You say their responsibility is to their fans. I'd say they've never ever forgotten that. But this responsibility, loyalty thing works both ways. Maybe it would be good for all of us to remember that once in a while.

------End Rant-----

very good post btw jack

but all we're saying is we arent playing well and there are several teams that are currently better than us. i think it's possible for us to win something like the CL but i dont think it's likely, even when you have the best team in he world the odds are stacked against you since theres 16 teams in knockout stage will have a shot @ it. but as far as league goes which is the only other trophy that really matter we'll we're completely overwhelmed, ya we could end 3rd or 4th but could that seriously be considered a successful campaign in the league for milan??last coming back from midtable and making 4th could that honestly be considered a success, all that really says is we were that bad in the league + pts deduction(but even without the pts we woulda been 4th) and jack last year was an exception, how many times have we won the Cl in tho sorta circumstances? maybe in 03, but what are the canes of last year repeating two years in a row? oh and it's not like R7 prediction of winning the CL last year was anything special, he predicts us to win everything every year :rolleyes, it was bound to happen eventually.

PS it think it's healthy to be critical of the team among fellow fan, but constructively, alot of us have mentioned the things that need to change but this doesnt mean we think less of the accomplishments of several figures in the club. because i can assure you around fans of other clubs i dont flinch, milan is the best

Good post Jack, if I weren't at the uni I would surely answer with a big post too Gonna do that later

Excuses....you gonna tell me about Scorpions or not??

The f2ck is that supposed to mean


Great post Jack ... U'v hit it on the nail again


Problem is, people live by the day and don't reminisce on the good times ... Rather dwell on today's issue(s), when it clearly is being handled by the best people in the business (i.e. Silvio and Galliani).

I went to an Arsenal game, two years ago ... meet a couple of those Arsenal fans at a pub not far from Highbury, an hr or two before kick-off ... And by that time, Arsenal was in all kinds of mess. I remember two guys telling me how awful it is with Chelsea coming out and unbalancing their EPL standings, etc etc ... But in the end, they consider Arsenal as the strongest team around. And anyone who comes to Highbury will get an @ss whopping ... The match then starts, and guess what, Arsenal loss to West Ham (cuz of Cambells blunders) .. And the crowed kept singing and singing all the way to the tube station, as if they have just won a freakin EPL title (p.s. do u know where they went next, to Paris for the CL final)

The feeling I got from this trip to Highbury were, you can be critical .. to an extent, but as true fans, you never turn ur back on ur club.

In here, the norm is the opposite .. You have to be critical of the team or your wearing rosy tinted glasses .... What is the point then of being a fan ?! When you clearly have grudges on the club, from the management to the coach to the bench players !!

Is it an opinion ?! Sure it is, and you have every right to voice it ... But we all have eyes, we all can see what is going on, on the field of play ... We all know Milan isn't producing the results that meet it's stature. But what can we do about it ?! Exactly what the Arsenal fans do about it, they keep supporting their club, because they believe in their team!

I don't know if it's a minority or a majority anymore who thinks the club is not the best in the world. Cuz when you go to the San Siro, you are enchanted by the Milan fans there, everyone was wearing rosy tined glasses ... And that just makes me laugh when people claim that I wear rosy tinted glasses, cuz clearly I ain't a part of the minority, but the actual majority


Jack, problem is, people would rather dwell on todays success and all .. Rather than look at what this team has accomplished and what it can accomplish. Calling the team off seems to be the cool thing these days


Ultimately, Milan are #1 in the world in my book. And I'm not the only one who thinks that, amongst others, there is Silvio Berlusconi.

Fortunately, Togo didn't qualify so we get to keep Adebayor.
The big problem is who we are going to use instead of Eboue, and I'm n not really confident of Senderos replacing Toure.

Well....my excuse is gone now...
There are a few things I want to say.

1. This was one of the best posts by R7 I ever read.

2. I think we all want only the best for the club and the team.

3. This is what I'm not doing (just want to clearify) I'm (and neither is kurt) not denying the success the team had in the past years. Those were simply great! Neither did I ever bash the team in a way that was inappropriate like "They're not any good". I always defended Carletto last season, even when most people said we'd need a new coach. And I'm still of the opinion that Carlo is the right man for the job. I also want to say that Milan is probably the team with the most class in the world. Pirlo, Maldini, Nesta, Seedorf, Rino, Pippo, Ambro etc. and in front of all Kaká...that's a class no other team in the world has.

4. I think there's a huge difference between positive and negative criticism...of course every observer has a different opinion on what is positive an negative. I think I'm only criticising the team in a way that is constructive. Of course I'll always cheer for Milan...even if they'd play in the Serie B. Now I'm coming to a very important point: I didn't become a Milanfan because of their trophy collection. I became a Milanfan because of the same reasons I once became a Bochum fan (No, it's not because my father is a Milan Fan ), because I feel some kinda connection between me and the club I can't describe. Because this team, unlike many other big european teams has a heart and respects their players more than most other clubs. Because Milan doesn't play Chelseas ugly machine-like football.
I don't care to much for statistics in football and I never will because football and mathematics just don't work together. Do I care if we won the CL more often than other teams? I don't think so. Our game against ManU at the Siro or Pippos goal against Bayern, Pippos comebacks and seeing a great pass or run by Kaká, seeing Seedorf at his best....THAT'S what makes football the most succesfull sport on earth and that makes me proud of beeing a Milan fan! The real satisfaction for me wasn't the CL title itself but the fact that we really deserved it and that we gave our last to win it....that is football! It's not useless silver ware.

5. If I think there's need for criticism I will always criticise. But I will only criticise Milan here...in this forum amongst other Milan fans. It's the same when I talk about Bochum or the german NT. Amongst other supporter I will always voice my criticism. Everywhere elese I'll always defend them even if I think I'm wrong. And where else should I criticise Milan than here? IMO it's not only my right but my duty as well! I know that it won't change anything most likely as I'm not an official. But I'll always say what I think and that's my duty. I dunno if this a part of the german football culture but u guys should definetely go to a game of a team in the Ruhrgebiet (Dortmund, Schalke or Bochum for example). I've never heard people moaning about the team and the game more than the people from the Ruhrgebiet (I'm not much worse either I gotta admit ) but in the end these people give away their last money to see the matches of their clubs, they go to every training session and visit every match no matter what. Hell, who should criticise a team if not it's fans?

6. Now coming to my criticism today. As I said no team in the world has more class than Milan and Carlo is a good coach too. I don't want to say anything about Silvio or Galliani now as I could criticise the sun as well...they're some kind of an unchangeable environment. About the team...they have class, that's right. And they have the class to be the best team in the world, but I don't they are right now. And I really dunno why. I just have the feeling that Pirlo or even Rino need a kick in their XXX to be at their best again for EVERY game. Look at Seedorf or Pippo...one day they're playing like amateurs and the other day they play like their 25-yo selves! I really think our established players lack the motivation right now. What they need is competition within the team. New and hungry young players (unlinke Gourcuff who'll never IMO make his way here) should come and force them to show their best again! That's all I want. Pato might be just the right thing...time will tell.

7. At last I can only say that I couldn't agree more with dst:


So far....

Great post LaPalma.

LaPalma, u the man

Great posts everyone. I think I feel like I'm in about the same position as LaPalma when it comes to how I talk and feel about Milan, I couldn't have said it better myself.

I think one thing we all have to remember is that we're here for the same reason and that is to support Milan. BUT when things are going badly - just as in other aspects of life - different people react in different ways. It's just each individuals way of dealing with things.

OK so now we're the Mickey Mouse Club...

.. yeah till the next game the team stumble in, then it's back to good old milanfan.com

Talking about good old milanfan.com I think we should bring this fruitless discussion about the team, the status of it, the board and all this stuff. Everything that had to be said has been said IMO. There are different opinions but there is only one Milan that we all want to support. I think we all agree that it hasn't been as funny here in the last 6 month or so as it used to be.
There are a couple of games that we need to win till christmas (most of all the derby against Inter) and I think if the team shows some will we can do that. There is enough time to discuss our current season during the christmas break.



So yes....this is the Mickey Mouse club (Can I be Goofy?)

You do know, don't you, that Super Goof's name in Italian is 'SuperPippo', yes?

Nope, I only liked Goofy because of his funny big ears

Back on topic.

Villa 0 - Portsmouth 2
40min. Great goal by Muntari.

I'm watching .. At this rate, they might even concede a third.

The first Portsmouth goal was an OG. Poor Scot Carson is just not having a good spell at all.

Do Villa have a player called, the whore ?! ... The commentator just screamed that, and I don't know if he was referring to a players name or ..

Ha-ha! Yeah, Super Pippo is not a nickname Inzaghi chose...

It's not easy, psychologically, to climb back from the awful game against Croatia. I still think David James should have been between the keeper back than because of his experience.

Another great strike from Munatri. 0:3. 60 min

I'd have to disagree there. If you saw the goals today, an own goal and two fantastis strikes from Muntari - he couldn't do anything about them. He did follow up his England disaster with 2 clean sheets on the road, I'd say he's recovered pretty well.

We got a late goal, a penalty from Barry, but again it just wasn't our day. We dominated the game completely, we had 12 attempts on goal, they didn't even have half that amount. Not to mention them scoring 3 goals with only 2 shots on target. It's becoming a running trend for us, we dominated Arsenal in the 2nd half and lost, we dominated Pompey for 90 minutes and lost. We just need to take our chances better.

I will just keep comfort in the fact that we're playing good football, and we've only lost to respectable teams so far - United, Liveprool, Arsenal, Man City and Pompey.

Need to win up at Sunderland next week though to keep up in the top 6.

Double post.

EDIT: Chelsea 1-0 Sunderland. Sheva!

Sunderlands record breaking goalkeeper has been left on the bench AGAIN - money well spent.

He can score ?!

you'll be surprised

What's the point replying about him if everytime you taking shots at him. He donn't need to prove to anyone, and surely not to you, anythyng.

HT Younighted 2-0 Derby

Giggs and Tevez.

But Tevez looks like sh!t in that team. He's not 10% of what Rooney/Torres/Drogba are. At least he's not showing that in United.

I agree with you on Tevez, 100%.

Congratulations to Giggsy, that was his 100th league goal for United. Only the 11th person in EPL history to reach that mark.

hehe .. i wasn't taking shots

just sarcastic ... u guys need to loosen up, chill bro.

I think it's Agbonlahor.

Derby have scored their first away goal of the season - 8 and a half games it's taken them - and they've don it at Old Trafford.

Just figured out that THAT player is actually English.


Yeah. Celebrating like they've won the CL.

Good 2nd goal by Tevez.
78' 3-1

@kurt's: It's Bill Shankly, the man behind the biggest and most successful club in UK: Liverpool FC.

Cristiano super-dive... winning a penalty. And scoring it. FT 4-1.

It was world class dive

FT Chelsea 2 - Sunderland 0

14 straight games unbeaten. 11 wins and 3 draws

Next week: Liverpool vs United and Arsenal vs Chelsea

You've become quite a fan!

Liverpool and Real Madrid is a deadly combination

Of Bill Shankly? Yes. Don't you just love his quotes?

Of Liverpool? No. Just respect them for the club they are.

It's true they're the #1 in UK.
Just like Juventus is the biggest club in Italy. We may have more titles in Europe but they have a lot more fans and titles in Italy.

True, they are. I just don't like them. Mostly their fans, they are too arrogant (not in a bad way but they are irritatingly self-centered). They are the biggest whiners when they lose and so YNWA-y when they win. The whole thing is... too pop for my likings... I'd say Liverpool are the Britney Spears of football...