I agree with you in that we need some influence within the club that we can relate to. But sometimes those do not have the credentials nor the experience to be handling such a task. Add to that the harmony to co-exist with figures like Galliani and Berlusconi who have a hands on approach.

I would like to see a new owner at the club, frankly speaking just bored of all this moaning about where we are and the poor management. Let a new face come in and bring in all those past players that we relate to in terms of image and representation. New blood, and have a spin-off see where that takes us.

Capello made his name at Milan, and with Milan's money. When all the money is gone, you reckon Capello will coach Milan or Madrid? Of course Madrid, and that goes to Carlo Ancelotti too. Project these days mean PSG, City, Chelsea, Monaco, you get the drift.

For me its a cycle, one we are forced into just like all the other Serie A sides. I wouldn't say we are all equal, because as of now, the sides that have CL football have the upper hand. But we are equal in the sense that we share the same sovereign football issues, legacies such as stadiums, TV income, Taxes. To build a new stadium will take at least three years, and costs exceeding 300M (noting Milan had an aggregate loss of 160M from 2010-2013). To increase TV income you have to have more demand for Serie A Calcio 'worldwide'. To reduce Taxes, the Italian economy as a whole has to recover. Just to name the obvious issues of legacy.

Its a monuments task, one that the club might not be able to hurdle past as it all depends on 'external forces'.

But what the club can do, invest in youth. Takes time, you produce maybe one each season maybe two, or you produce one in three seasons fit to play for the first team. Depends on the player and his adaptability to such a high level game. We are seeing the results with young Italian players coming through to the first team. Our youth has not produced a new Maldini as of yet, but it is producing players like Abate DS Mastour as of-date. Though I wouldn't say Mastour is 100% ready to play first team. Then since you have this inconvenience of having to wait for your eggs to 'hatch', you fill in the holes but having a cheap (freebie) alternative. Ofcourse, the better players are all expensive, Milan can not afford to increase the wage bill by locking horns with clubs like PSG, City, Madrid or United - who are all ready to pay top dollar for the next Messi or a good bench warmer . Add to that we don't have European TV income this year, hence we cant compete with other teams who have that privilege to offer and extra $$$.

The issue is that we have always been a 'sugar daddy' club, where Silvio gave the fans the best teams, over paying excessively with 70-90M in losses per year (only in recent times was an effort made to reduce that to comply with FFP). 70M and 80M in losses per year have to come from somewhere! It wont disappear next year, and it was the sugar daddy that kept the show going. All the names you mentioned above have seen Milan's blessed years. Unfortunately some forum members only caught on to Milan recently and thus have a short experience of what it was like, to be the Madrid of our times.

This is not a direct response to you Pippo, just a small rant

3 years? I don't get your calculations? Are you putting the time where he was barely featured, and still pretty raw in your calculations? 1 year, or 1 year and a half I can understand..

No, thanks..I'll give him my support until he shows ON THE FIELD that he doesn't deserve it. He's always given more than 100 percent for Milan.

@Rosso: Why isn't it a cycle for Madrid though? Each year, they keep on spending, and spending. Their revenue must be huge compared to us..top clubs get top revenue..and the money we're not spending to get that status..we're sorely losing as TV money etc. etc.

Hahaha, you're kidding me.

You're right. But that all comes at a cost. I see Milan at a crossroad.

Silvio sticks on the road he is on now, self sustainment or he sells the club. (i dont think investing is on the table anymore, if his kids are smart and they are they will do everything in their power to make sure he doesn't take 1 cent out of their inheritance.)


If we choose self sustainment, the consequences are as follows:

-our image is gone, we will move to midtable status for a while until our academy starts producing worthy players and we get lucky with a few good signings (young prospects).
-We will lose probably half our fan base and the majority of our sponsorship. Our Revenue will take radical hit, the majority of our players will leave and will be replaced with even lower quality players. The fans that remain and they will be mostly local ones will either choose to support the team or abandon it. The second one will turn us into leeds.

the positives are that we don't need a silvio for Milan to exist. we will always be around, no bankruptcy.


If we choose to sell, which I believe is what we are on the course of doing. I think thats what Silvio's children want. They just want to get a good enough Return on Investment to cover some of the losses and the debt finivest has.


-consequences, we will be a sell out club. Serie A will either adapt or crumble. I think with whats happening they will most likely adapt. If the new owner ever gets sick of milan, we are f*cked. No garantee that the new owner will splash either.


positives: We will have new management, fresh ideas and a new approach to things. Possibly could make a serious fight back to the top. Fan base could grow, etc etc..

Global demand for Madrid/Barcelona is much higher than for a Serie A team. Madrid's Revenue is the highest among all football clubs worldwide.

They have a revenue of 520M as of 2013, with Net profit of 37M.

We have 278M as of 2013, with Net Loss of 15.7M.


And this has always been the case, noting Silvio funded the difference between Milan and Madrid, to make the stellar teams he did. It really is that simple.

Why? Well, not many around the world share our passion for Milan. Madrid vs Barca is more exciting than Milan vs inter. United vs Liverpool/City is a sold out fixture, while Milan vs Juventus has at best 70% occupancy. etc etc.

Oh my... This reeks of Galliani. When is the fact that he's gone off the deep end going to register with Silvio?

Harsh realities

Just curious R7, if you were in Galliani's shoes, what would be the first thing you would implement do? What would be your 1/3/5 year goals. You've been a fan much longer than I have, so you've seen the ups and downs, the cycles much better than I have.

1) is there hope? Is it going to change? 2) Any positives to take from our management so far?

If R7 was in Galliani's place I'm pretty sure we wouldn't see the financial atrocities that we're seeing now, because no matter how much R7 tries to defend him, he knows that there are some things that Galliani has done over this past decade which are just inexcusable.

Abbiati: "If we can finish in top 3 this season? No. It's already a vast improvement if we start the season better than in the last 2 ones."


At least someone in this club has his brain screwed on right and doesn't live in LaLa Land

Just stupid. Doesn't help when your vice captain says your club has no chance. The players already lack confidence as it is

Btw,

The offer for Constant was 2m. He's on 800k a year.

We paid 7.5m for him.


It would be stupid to sell him for 2m. Who can we get to replace him with that money and on that wage. I'd say he's at least worth 5m.

Anyways, they want him so negotations are going to continue.

------

If we can't sign cerci, (which is look like it won't happen) and if campbell falls through. We will go for Andre Ayew whose contract with Marseille expires next year. He's 24

800k a year means we're spending 1.6m every year on him because of taxes

And I don't care that we were stupid enough to begin with and spent that kind of money to buy him. He's terrible, he's not even a LB but he's only ever considered a such by our coaches, he's useless there, a complete defensive liability to go along with the other liabilities we have on this team.

If there is a chance to offload him, then just do it.

The fact that we need proper LB cover is not going to change, whether he stays or goes

Btw, just checked the wage chart. He's earning 1m per year after taxes. So double that and that's what he's costing us each year. He has a contract until 2017. Which means another 3 seasons of paying that kind of money. So that means he'll cost us a further 6m aside from the money that we already wasted on his wages.

I'd say take whatever they're offering and run

...^^ That makes perfect sense, if he was a spare player. For example a third player vying for a single position on the squad.

But that's not the case. Getting rid of him and signing someone better at the same wage to be a first teamer is impossible. And why sign someone who is just as mediocre to seat him on the bench? Doesn't make sense. You just lose out on more transfer money.

Um, that is what he is. DS is the first choice LB

Constant is nothing but a utility player who has been lucky enough to play in this very average Milan because of injuries and then Seedorf seeing DS as only a RB

He is not first choice, shouldn't even be second choice as he's not a LB and bound to make one mistake in practically each game he plays.

This is the problem with Milan atm, we have mediocre players filling in for various positions and in some cases being the only options we have, if we want to move forward we can't have guys like Zaccardo and Constant trying to be Jack of all trades and failing at each of them, Constant could be a half decent CM, but he's only considered as a LB, and as a LB he's nothing but a liability to this team. We need to look at someone who is an actual defender to cover DS in that position. Constant is just not that guy and if we can't use him in midfield then we have no use for him on this squad

Our Fullbacks right now:

Abate
DES
Constant
Albertazzi


Bonera and Zaccardo are make shift fullbacks, but i don't think Inzaghi will use them too much. They are just there in case of emergencies anyways and to provide experience. Vila will be sold.

Albertazzi isn't ready for Milan and he will take at least a season to get used to not sh*ttng his pants every time he walks into the stadium. Thats if he survives the season.

So that leaves us with Abate, DES and Constant. If we sell constant we won't be able to get anyone as good as him. It'll cost us minimum 7m to get a replacement. Its just not worth it. You know Galliani won't replace him if we sell him.


Our transfer budget is set at 0. We've already spent 3.75m on Rami and 500k on Albertazzi.

We've reached an agreement with Dzemaili of napoli. We bid 3m earlier but they rejected.

Negotations are set to continue, it looks like we'll be planning to bid 4m max for him. Napoli want 5m. (i expect this to take all august


Arsenal are close to douglas costa, so that'll probably rule out a balo transfer.

It seems inzaghi isn't convinced by Essien and is looking to ship him off and bring in Dzemaili or another CM.

Juventus have made an official enquiry about Zapata and talks will begin soon. Allegri wants him bad.

(we should try and at least get 12m for zapta. we paid 7m for him afterall and he's had a good world cup)

That is a VERY low bar to set for anyone who will be replacing him!

Albertazzi was awful in that friendly against Olympiacos, a total mess, I really can't see him being considered and it wouldn't shock me if he didn't even last the summer with us and we'll ship him off somewhere before the window closes

So that makes it Abate, Bonera, DS and Constant. Bonera imo is still decent at RB it removes the possibilities of the calamities he achieves at CB and he's always been pretty solid for us as a RB, doesn't provide anything going forward but defensively he's always done a good job there, so I still consider him an option for that position.

Constant is just not a LB, so if we sell him, we'll be forced to bring in someone else as there wouldn't be an option. And that is a GOOD thing. Constant is absolutely awful defensively, I don't know how many goals he w directly responsible for just last season alone. We need to get rid of him ASAP so even JUST the option of playing him is no longer there. We need a PROPER LB to cover for DS. If that means spending some money than so be it.


Dzemaili?? Are these our aspirations for next season? FFS!

He's at Muntari level imo, won't add anything to the team, we need a proper CM before we start next season and that cannot be Dzemaili

If we sell Zapata to Juve we better ask for good cash, enough to recoup what we gave them for Matri plus a compensation for taking him in the first place. So that would mean asking them for 15m and nothing less.

We shouldn't be helping them out by giving them some cut price deal as we usually like to stupidly do

But what can you do with no money?

We have a debt of 15m euros and we are missing out on 30m euros that we can get from CL.

Thats 45m we are lacking. We still lack sufficient funds to do anything. So either Silvio opens up his wallet or we spend our money where it matters most.


If we sell constant, we should keep Vila and use him there. Take the money and use it towards a midfielder or attacker.

We need to spend at least 30m euros for a chance at fighting for 3rd.

Dzemaili would be alright, I guess. If Pippo plans on using Honda in midfield, then we're already covered with him, De Jong and Poli, which is a darn good midfield if you ask me. Dzemaili would act as a sub, alongside Muntari and Cristante.

Dzemelai is a waste of money in my opinion.

Get rid of Essien. Promote Mastali.

Honda, Monto, de jong, sapo, poli, muntari, cristante, mastali

Take that 5m were gonna spend on him and put it towards the attacking signing. Once robinho hits the deck, splash on someone like Griezzman.

I think with such scarce income, what Galliani is doing is a very good job. Maybe you prefer someone other than Muntari to be our DM, and I would prefer Muller to Balotelli, and maybe Jack would prefer Iniesta instead of Montolivo, etc etc ... yet the reality is these are the players that 'tick' certain criteria to fill a 'void' within the squad at a lower cost than Iniesta or Muller.

Stop-gaps if you will, which should ultimately be filled by a graduate of our youth academy. <--- That is the cycle we are waiting to complete.

Things are changing? of course, not as swiftly as we all would like. But in line with our income things are changing.

Our management have been planning for this change since 2008. This is not the spur of the moment type of thing. Just that our youth academy is not yet producing players capable of tacking a first team role. Is Galliani to blame for that? Or is it a matter of adaptation that the youth have yet to be on that level?

Veratti was the next Pirlo coming out of Serie B and straight to PSG. Would Milan or Juventus or inter be able to retain this next Italian big thing? We all know the obvious here.

And it is the obvious that we can not come to terms with on this forum. Why? Because we are used to a Glorious Milan. A Milan of Maldini&Nesta or Shevchenko&Inzaghi. Today's Milan, we can not relate to, I can not relate to.

1 ) Is there hope? Yes, but do you have the patience? I know han doesn't
2 ) Our management have reduced the losses to be within the 45M over three year period under FFP, also management have implemented a youth policy so the first team can harvest players from within.

To judge the management is not really important is it? I mean its not like we have a say in it. But from the financials I can say for certain there are things taking shape, a lot of investments have gone to the youth side (obviously to be realized when the youth mature). We have had initiatives such as Casa Milan (to promote future Milan fans and increase the fan base). We have reduced our salary burden (removing high earners fromt he books).


PS. Nothing is certain Blue, only death is certain. But from the looks of things, the management (believe it or not) have been doing a LOT to get this club in top shape. Of course top shape does not mean Milan of 2003, rather a modified Milan which is in compliance with FFP.

Will that be in 1/3/5 yrs? I don't know, the sooner the better no? But it all depends on our youth maturing is my take.

Whats your opinion on berlusconi and his plans for the club? Do you think he's going to keep it in the family or sell it off.


I personally see all the iniatives taken as a way to make milan financially attractive. We have had investors interested in the past. But the numbers weren't right.


I just don't see Berlusconi dragging his name through the mud with this youth project perspective. If we have another blunder of a season i can see him seriously look to get as much ROI as he can. El Sharaawy being the first to go

Verratti went for a very reasonable sum, the fact that Italian clubs don't want to spend more than a certain amount on youth because they don't really believe in it is why Verratti went to PSG and not Juve, Milan or Inter. Because any one of those teams could have afforded to pay Pescara the 14m or so that they spent on Verratti and they'd have had an assured star for the next 10 to 15 years

Who told you we have no money?

We have a budget every summer for transfers, it's how we threw away 12m on Matri last summer. From our budget.

We can get a LB, that's just decent and used for cover for a low price, there are a lot of them in Serie A. Players who are actual LBs not makeshift ones who started out as mids and were moved to the LB position for the simple reason that they are left footed by Allegri.

Silvio will sell the club, he will not recoup his investment in Milan (which exceeds 1bn to date), but he will put it on the market and if it meets his valuation he will sell part or whole.

I am positive the Berlusconi family want Milan to stand on its feet, to relieve the burden off of fininvest and open the door for an investor. Add to that FFP.

Berlusconi selling because he can not contain the losses + he is not allowed to under FFP. Hence whats the point in keeping the club? Not sure if the next owner can do a PSG, as PSG themselves are in a fix having not complied with FFP. Take precedence with inter and Thohir.

Yeah, sure, cos Mastali will solve our problems.

Dzemaili is a decent player, would be ideal as sub, and for just €4 million I think it's a great deal.

And for Griezzman we need to splash +€30 million, as that's what Atletico bid for him in the last few hours. If we could spend that kind of money we'd have signed Iturbe.



You're taking for granted that Silvio wants to sell the club, but that's just an assumption you're making. Personally, I don't think that's the case.

You don't pay £15M for a 'pretty raw' player. Furthermore MDS is the same age as him and played 5 times in 2011/2012. El-Sha, 'barely featuring' as you put it, made 27 appearances in the same season.

Not sure I can totally buy your calculations either tbh.



Erm, I'll give him my support always because he wears red and black. I'm just making (IMO) valid criticism of his worth up till now.

FFP is a joke and you well know it. Real Madrid are in 500M worth of debt yet throwing hundreds of millions around in transfer fees. And the one time PSG were 'found guilty of violating it' they appealed the 'sentence' and got it substantially reduced.

Stop using FFP as an excuse. It's just a FIFA buzzphrase to pretend they're doing something about the silly money when in reality the power clubs can do what the hell they like.

Thats ur opinion, not mine

It's not an opinion, it's a fact that clubs like City and PSG have made a mockery out of FFP.


FFP is mostly just a convenient excuse for Silvio and Galliani

Absolutely.

How is it a fact han? Please don't insult my intelligence buddy, just present me with the facts. Or does it just fits the bias of B&G?

Um, how about the fact that they broke the "FFP rules" and were slapped on the wrist by a fine.

And then some club in Russia breaks the rules and they're omitted from European competitions.

Like Danny said, the big clubs will continue to do whatever the hell they like because they're holding UEFA and FIFA by their necks. Clubs have gotten bigger than the governing body of football these days which is why the system is corrupt and cannot be monitored fairly.

You did not present facts, just assumptions. I'll wait till you present me with a fact.

PS. There are several analysis done online with regards to PSG and City FFP compliance; I suggest you read the facts and point them out to me.

It is a FACT that both City and PSG were fined.

Other clubs like Malaga, Hajduk Split, Bucharest, Besiktas and Bursaspor were all initially banned due to their finances.

PSG and City were fined. But they did not face the peril of a ban. Those clubs you mentioned got banned for not paying player wages nor taxes. A technical component that surprisingly City and PSG complied with.

How about you explain to me how PSG or City, so far, have managed to get only a fine? With facts please.

PSG and City have been doing the same thing that you've been telling us cannot be done, which is spending ridiculous money that comes straight from their owner's pocket.

With Real and Barca it is understandable how they can basically fly under the FFP radar because of their revenues, but that is not the case with City or PSG. They're in the same both as us (losing more money than they're making) relying on cash from their owners, they're certainly not self sustaining.

And isn't it you that has been telling us over and over that Silvio cannot continue to fund the club as he did in the past because of FFP? City and PSG do just that and get a slap on the wrist for it. (Fine + squad restriction of 21 for the CL which won't really hurt them anyway as City only used 21 players last season in the CL anyway)

When all this FFP kicked up, there was meant to be a rule about the amount of money you could make via sponsors as well, to stop a rich owner just using another company of his to sponsor his club for silly money. "Fair value" it was called, I believe. But Barca went way and beyond that and everyone turned a blind eye to it, now United have done the same and it's being ignored again.

FFP means absolutely nothing to a rich club. It's all about creating a glass ceiling to keep certain clubs at the top.

Yep, and it's not like Silvio can't do that either had he really wanted to find a loop hole into FFP as well. He's got various companies that could "sponsor" Milan.

But as I said, why would he do that when it's obvious he doesn't want to spend money and FFP provides a very convenient excuse to do so.

Exactly Present me with facts you did, Silvio unwilling to fund the FFP loopholes

Who ever heard of the three month monitoring period and all that crap FFP is about

Yeah silvio will sell forsure. It would be absurd to keep milan at this point.

I just hope its sooner than later. Realistically we'll finish mid-table again.


---


The FFP thing won't be taken seriously until a serious action is taken. Fines don't mean anything unless they're into the 100+ millions

You've trolled this entire thread! In fact you've been trolling for over a year. First we're building a youth project now FFP is sincere and holding us back!

You change your trolls dependent on circumstance and demand 'facts' as a way of covering your own complete lack of argument.

It sounds so stupid to say it but we need a rich oil company or Abramovich type.

PSG: Qatar Sports - worth 115B
Man City: Sheik Mansoor - personal worth about 40B - family value a trillion.
Chelsea: Abramovich - 14.2B
Zenit: Gazprom - 350B
Real Madrid - owned by the state and funded with different rules.
Barca - same as Real
Man Utd - Glazers - 1.2 trillion.

All the above keep buying, keep investing.

Milan - Berlusconi - 8B but won't spend any of it on Milan any more. He has the cash but not the ambition unlike the above. Not now.

He's won 5 champions leagues. I wouldn't have the ambition either but i'd have the intelligence to not ruin my name after doing all that.


He will sell tho, i'm sure of it. After these games, the season ticket holders will want a refund. Empty stadiums and another 8th place finish will force his hand forsure.


and on the FFP front, R7 isn't wrong. Everything he's stated is valid and can be found in the documentation. However that isn't the problem, its how the policy is enforced or the lack of enforcement for a better word.


The truth of the matter is that UEFA would never ban a club like man city from champions league, lets take that off teh table as that would hurt their own revenues. What they can do tho is make severe fines so that the rules are taken seriously. Slap city with a 100m euro fine and I can gurantee they'll follow the rules.

Milan's adidas deal is 20M per year for ten years.

United's adidas deal is 100M per year for ten years.

There is a GULF of a difference between our market value and that of the top clubs around.

And yeah I demand facts, I have yet to be presented with the same.

So why didn't Milan find a way to a better market position? Or do you think it would have been impossible.

That's one fifth... but we're not even spending one tenth of what United do.

Man Utd's market value is $2.81 billion.

Milan's is $856M

Chelsea's is $876M - Chelsea just spent 62M on Fabregas & Costa.

Man Utd's market value exceeds ours, yes, but Chelsea's is the same. Yet they're buying in world class players while we beg PSG for their cast offs.

Are those the facts you demand or will you come up with 'yeah but...'.