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X-Offender
QUOTE (han2503 @ Jun 1 2014, 08:24 PM) *
I only noticed that work rate in the last few games before he was injured. Before that he mostly stayed in his position on that right side. I'm guessing Seedorf demanded it of him, it's not something that comes naturally to him, he never really worked that hard for the team when at CSKA either, and that's the first thing I noticed about him when I watched a couple of games he played with CSKA, which I mentioned here as well

Also, my mistake there was that I only mentioned work rate. but to play in the CM role you also have to be more positionally aware as part of your role, it's not something that someone who's been playing as an attacking player all his playing career can just slip into.

And I'm sure no coach will be playing Honda in that position

If Monto is out for 4 months. And that's not even taking into account getting back his match fitness which takes a while after a player breaks his leg, we need to look into a proper CM who will be playing alongside Poli and De Jong in that midfield


Honda has played as CM at Venlo and CKSA before, so it's not a position he's not familiar with. We are assuming that this guy can only play as AM, and that's wrong. Sure, he can't play on the wings cos that requires completely different characteristics, but I honestly see no problem in moving him back in midfield, especially now that Montolivo is out. He offers quality, tactical awareness and work-rate. He's not like Boateng who was completely undisciplined. He can pull it off, trust me.
han2503
QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jun 1 2014, 10:36 PM) *
Honda has played as CM at Venlo and CKSA before, so it's not a position he's not familiar with. We are assuming that this guy can only play as AM, and that's wrong. Sure, he can't play on the wings cos that requires completely different characteristics, but I honestly see no problem in moving him back in midfield, especially now that Montolivo is out. He offers quality, tactical awareness and work-rate. He's not like Boateng who was completely undisciplined. He can pull it off, trust me.

I'll choose to do so, as I honestly never saw him play there before. I just don't think he can pull it off as easily as you might think, especially when it's clear that he hasn't really adapted all that well to the league as of yet

Still I think we need at least one CM who can directly replace Monto, as I seriously do not think Honda will be played in midfield any time soon
Jack Sparrow
For me it's a 4-3-1-2/4-3-3 kind of setup. Let's put all resources we can into shoring up that defence.

Abate---CB---CB---De Sciglio
----------Montolivo---------------
---Honda---------Poli/DeJong---
------------Kaka------------------
-----Pazzo-----------El Shar-----

If we could just spend around 30 million and build up depth and quality in defence, we could still make a proper run for CL places. It's not such a horrible team. Even without Balotelli.
Fillipo Simone
Guys, I really don't think this makes any sense. It's season end, and next season's formation will be clear when the transfer period ends. Sure, Milan has no cash and we cannot expect big signings, but if the rumors are true and we're about to load off 10 or more players, the team will get a substantial face lift. Meaning our discussion now is completely redundant, because we don't know who stays, who goes and who comes as an addition.
han2503
QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Jun 2 2014, 10:05 AM) *
Guys, I really don't think this makes any sense. It's season end, and next season's formation will be clear when the transfer period ends. Sure, Milan has no cash and we cannot expect big signings, but if the rumors are true and we're about to load off 10 or more players, the team will get a substantial face lift. Meaning our discussion now is completely redundant, because we don't know who stays, who goes and who comes as an addition.

I think a 3-man midfield with Pippo is a given imo, the only matter is the one Jack brought up, whether it will be a 4-3-3 type set-up or a 4-3-1-2.

Also, I think the only big question marks on the first team players are on Balo and Rami. The others I think all will stay.

The ones that the management will work hard on removing are Constant, Urby (although I think his contract is up anyway, not sure), Matri, Zaccardo, etc

I think we'll bring in one CB, one ST + Palo and one CM for sure

Especially if we get a big pay out off of Balo
Jack Sparrow
I venture both Rami and Taraabt are question marks. With QPR getting promoted, while they may not want him back, there might be other PL clubs which might. And most PL clubs will be able to spend more than the ~7 million we are willing to offer.

For Rami, we aren't willing to go beyond 4.5 million, while they have no need for money anymore with Peter Lim, so unsure of that as well.

What are the odds of making a play for Astori, Darmian (I hate weakening Torino), Santon, Ogbonna et al?
Fillipo Simone
I'd really like to see Mattia back with us. He deserves a shot here.
han2503
QUOTE (Jack Sparrow @ Jun 2 2014, 10:37 AM) *
I venture both Rami and Taraabt are question marks. With QPR getting promoted, while they may not want him back, there might be other PL clubs which might. And most PL clubs will be able to spend more than the ~7 million we are willing to offer.

For Rami, we aren't willing to go beyond 4.5 million, while they have no need for money anymore with Peter Lim, so unsure of that as well.

What are the odds of making a play for Astori, Darmian (I hate weakening Torino), Santon, Ogbonna et al?

Yeah forgot about Taraabt, but I don't think he'll be a sure starter for us next season anyway

Astori and Darmian or both average players. Astori, makes a big mistake practically every time I've watched him play, plus Cagliari want big cash for him which is not worth spending, I'd rather put up a few extra for Rami in all honesty

Same goes with Darmian, nothing special. And let's not make the same mistake we did with Boriello here, first we let them go then we spend a bucket of cash to get them back and then they fail again. There is a reason why these players got lost in the loan/co-own system.

Santon is the only guy I'd want from that list, simply because he's versatile and can play on both sides, and because DS is a bit of a worry for me atm as he hasn't shown any of the promise he did last season in this one. Plus all the injuries him and Abate seem to be picking up makes it necessary that we have proper cover for both of them
Jack Sparrow
Well we earned roughly about 1.3 million from Darmian. I think any and all sales involved will have to use our existing players as sales chips. For e.g. Constant plus cash for a real defender. And stuff like that.

And in that last game Darmian looked quite a sight better than De Sciglio did. I just can't figure what went wrong with him. I hope it is just a bad season due to all the uncertainty.
X-Offender
QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Jun 2 2014, 10:05 AM) *
Guys, I really don't think this makes any sense. It's season end, and next season's formation will be clear when the transfer period ends. Sure, Milan has no cash and we cannot expect big signings, but if the rumors are true and we're about to load off 10 or more players, the team will get a substantial face lift. Meaning our discussion now is completely redundant, because we don't know who stays, who goes and who comes as an addition.


Ah, we're just making assumptions at this point. But like Han said, some things we already know, like Pippo playing a 3-man midfield.
kurtsimonw
We should play with a 1 man midfield, 5-1-4.
X-Offender
QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Jun 2 2014, 03:04 PM) *
We should play with a 1 man midfield, 5-1-4.


Or 4-1-5, like Barça. laugh.gif
Forza Milan!
Berlusconi's latest statements

In brief:
- We feel bad about Monto (will need 3 months + 2 more)
- We have not decided on Inzaghi yet
- Have not decided if we will sell Balo
- Looking at other athletes, "but first we will wait for the new coach"
(Also includes advice to Prando on how to play Balo properly.)

My take (pure guesswork):
- Waiting to resolve the situation with Seedorf before making a formal announcement on Inzaghi (however, "waiting for the new coach" means that Seedorf is definitely out)
- Will put Balo on the market after the WC

On the bright side, I think I now know how to tell if B&G are being less then truthful ...


Forza Milan!
QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jun 2 2014, 04:36 PM) *
Or 4-1-5, like Barça. laugh.gif

In the end, it will depend on who is in charge, and on who we have available.
X-Offender
QUOTE (Forza Milan! @ Jun 2 2014, 08:20 PM) *
- We have not decided on Inzaghi yet
- Have not decided if we will sell Balo


What a blatant liar. Inzaghi has been twice at his villa with Galliani. Everyone and their grandmothers know he'll be the new coach.
kurtsimonw
QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jun 2 2014, 10:33 PM) *
What a blatant liar. Inzaghi has been twice at his villa with Galliani. Everyone and their grandmothers know he'll be the new coach.

What reason has Berlusconi ever given you to make you think he's a liar?
X-Offender
QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Jun 3 2014, 03:16 AM) *
What reason has Berlusconi ever given you to make you think he's a liar?


Yeah, I wouldn't know how to answer that. biggrin.gif
Danny
Latest story is a swap deal with PSG involving Mexes and Alex.
han2503
QUOTE (Danny @ Jun 3 2014, 12:32 PM) *
Latest story is a swap deal with PSG involving Mexes and Alex.

Prefer Mexes.
X-Offender
Both are the same age, both are about the same level. I'd prefer Mexes, too, but it wouldn't be the end of the world if we got Alex instead.
han2503
QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jun 3 2014, 01:05 PM) *
Both are the same age, both are about the same level. I'd prefer Mexes, too, but it wouldn't be the end of the world if we got Alex instead.

The thing is, Mexes is already a Serie A veteran who is already integrated within our side.

With Alex we're getting someone who's never played in Serie A, has been cruising it in the French league for the past few years, who will need to take time in order to get used to a new style of football and a new team
Forza Milan!
QUOTE (han2503 @ Jun 3 2014, 02:16 PM) *
The thing is, Mexes is already a Serie A veteran who is already integrated within our side.

With Alex we're getting someone who's never played in Serie A, has been cruising it in the French league for the past few years, who will need to take time in order to get used to a new style of football and a new team

Yeah, I fail to see the benefit in the swap. Is it a salary issue?
Forza Milan!
Milan fans expressing their unhappiness

Season ticket sales are way down (could go below 20k, we used to get 50k). Apparently the fans are organizing something for Berlu's visit to Casa Milan or when the team gets back together in July.
kurtsimonw
QUOTE (han2503 @ Jun 3 2014, 02:16 PM) *
The thing is, Mexes is already a Serie A veteran who is already integrated within our side.

With Alex we're getting someone who's never played in Serie A, has been cruising it in the French league for the past few years, who will need to take time in order to get used to a new style of football and a new team

Agreed.
Forza Milan!
More guesswork

Key points:
- Pippo wants to keep both Abate (right) and DS (left), but we may be losing DS ($18M offer from Real Madrid)
- Balo may stay, as Pippo may be the right person to straighten him out
- There is also a suggestion that Balo may be the next team captain (to get him to be more responsible). El Sha is mentioned as an alternative.
kurtsimonw
Balo and El Sha are awful captain ideas.
han2503
QUOTE (Forza Milan! @ Jun 3 2014, 01:42 PM) *
More guesswork

Key points:
- Pippo wants to keep both Abate (right) and DS (left), but we may be losing DS ($18M offer from Real Madrid)
- Balo may stay, as Pippo may be the right person to straighten him out
- There is also a suggestion that Balo may be the next team captain (to get him to be more responsible). El Sha is mentioned as an alternative.

laugh.gif That would be the biggest bit of idiocy they've done in a while!

I think Balo can do well under Pippo. Something tells me Pippo will be more of a Carlo type coach, where he's sort of a friend/father figure to the players. Which could work with Balo

QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Jun 3 2014, 01:49 PM) *
Balo and El Sha are awful captain ideas.

Agreed
X-Offender
QUOTE (han2503 @ Jun 3 2014, 01:16 PM) *
The thing is, Mexes is already a Serie A veteran who is already integrated within our side.

With Alex we're getting someone who's never played in Serie A, has been cruising it in the French league for the past few years, who will need to take time in order to get used to a new style of football and a new team


Somehow Alex strikes me as the type of player who wouldn't have any problems adapting to Serie A.
Jack Sparrow
Yeah. Plus I believe a sum of 2.5 million Euros is what we've put. For Mexes we're putting out 4 I think.

Mexes, Robinho, Urby, Nocerino, Niang, quite a lot of wages being gotten rid of. And all that will do is just about cover CL deficit. Now where is the transfer money coming from?! dry.gif
han2503
QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jun 3 2014, 04:50 PM) *
Somehow Alex strikes me as the type of player who wouldn't have any problems adapting to Serie A.

I agree, but nothing is really certain, Mexes is a solid option for us. If anything I'd prefer it if we got rid of the massive fodder we have in this team. Renew Mexes's deal for another 2 years or so with wages for around 2m and get Alex on the same type of deal.

I think that would allow us to release Zapata, Zaccardo, Silvestre and keep Bonera for something really low. I think this scenario would be ideal

Mexes-Rami would be the first choice starting duo with Alex and Bonera as backup. And I think we'd still manage to save money from what we have this season with a better defensive line

QUOTE (Jack Sparrow @ Jun 3 2014, 04:53 PM) *
Yeah. Plus I believe a sum of 2.5 million Euros is what we've put. For Mexes we're putting out 4 I think.

Mexes, Robinho, Urby, Nocerino, Niang, quite a lot of wages being gotten rid of. And all that will do is just about cover CL deficit. Now where is the transfer money coming from?! dry.gif

Yeah, but you can always lower Mexes's wage without getting into that much hassle
Jack Bauer
QUOTE (Forza Milan! @ Jun 3 2014, 04:42 PM) *
- Balo may stay, as Pippo may be the right person to straighten him out

biggrin.gif They used this line every time Balo got a new coach during his career.
Forza Milan!
QUOTE (Forza Milan! @ Jun 3 2014, 02:42 PM) *
More guesswork

Key points:
- Pippo wants to keep both Abate (right) and DS (left), but we may be losing DS ($18M offer from Real Madrid)
- Balo may stay, as Pippo may be the right person to straighten him out
- There is also a suggestion that Balo may be the next team captain (to get him to be more responsible). El Sha is mentioned as an alternative.

I should have added that the general tone of the article feels like the author is trying to justify what Berlu said, so some statements feel a bit like a stretch.
Forza Milan!
QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Jun 3 2014, 02:49 PM) *
Balo and El Sha are awful captain ideas.

El Sha seems to have the right attitude and maybe one day he could get there, but not yet. Balo makes no sense whatsoever. You need someone rational and level-headed for the role.
Forza Milan!
QUOTE (Jack Sparrow @ Jun 3 2014, 05:53 PM) *
Mexes, Robinho, Urby, Nocerino, Niang, quite a lot of wages being gotten rid of. And all that will do is just about cover CL deficit. Now where is the transfer money coming from?! dry.gif

Player transfers, probably, and that may include players we (as fans) would rather not lose. My guess is we will sell Balo and either one of DS or Abate. Would like to think we can get something out of either Matri or Pazzo (IMHO we do not need both, particularly if we are getting Palo back), but I fear we are stuck with Matri.
Forza Milan!
QUOTE (Jack Bauer @ Jun 3 2014, 07:07 PM) *
biggrin.gif They used this line every time Balo got a new coach during his career.

True. But I think Balo needs someone he can look up to, and Pippo may have a better chance then Seedorf. I don't think Allegri knew how to deal with players, and Balo may have seen Mancini as a "father figure", but Mancini had bigger issues at City, and I doubt it he had much time time for Balo.
Forza Milan!
This says we have worked out a deal with Menez (his contract with PSG is about to expire) as well as Alex. We also have offered 4M to Valencia for Rami.
han2503
QUOTE (Forza Milan! @ Jun 3 2014, 06:37 PM) *
This says we have worked out a deal with Menez (his contract with PSG is about to expire) as well as Alex. We also have offered 4M to Valencia for Rami.

Nothing special but they can be good deals...

I'd personally rather know who we're going to get rid of
Jack Bauer
QUOTE (Forza Milan! @ Jun 3 2014, 09:32 PM) *
True. But I think Balo needs someone he can look up to, and Pippo may have a better chance then Seedorf. I don't think Allegri knew how to deal with players, and Balo may have seen Mancini as a "father figure", but Mancini had bigger issues at City, and I doubt it he had much time time for Balo.

I don't think he had any trouble with Seedorf, they got along very well from what I've seen. As long as Balo won't really face and resolve his own problems, identity of the coach won't matter much for him in a long run.
Forza Milan!
QUOTE (Jack Bauer @ Jun 3 2014, 08:29 PM) *
I don't think he had any trouble with Seedorf, they got along very well from what I've seen. As long as Balo won't really face and resolve his own problems, identity of the coach won't matter much for him in a long run.

I agree that nobody can help Balo unless he wants to be helped. However, I am not sure Balo can deal with his issues on his own. Seedorf may have gotten there if he had been given enough time (but we will never know that). As a player, Pippo's experience is more relevant to Balo (which means he is more likely to listen), and from what I gather Pippo can relate to players better than Seedorf (acting more as a mentor than a boss).
QUOTE (han2503 @ Jun 3 2014, 03:18 PM) *
I think Balo can do well under Pippo. Something tells me Pippo will be more of a Carlo type coach, where he's sort of a friend/father figure to the players. Which could work with Balo

Agreed, which is why I think he has a better chance.

The real question is, will Balo be a Milan player next year. My guess is that if he does well at the WC we will sell him.
Forza Milan!
QUOTE (han2503 @ Jun 3 2014, 08:04 PM) *
I'd personally rather know who we're going to get rid of

Yup. Unfortunately that does not depend entirely on Milan, so we will have to wait and see.
X-Offender
According to this video on Mediaset:

- Menez met with Galliani and Inzaghi today (pictures taken), has agreed to sign for us (free transfer);
- Balotelli could be sold in England, we might replace him with Negredo (transfer fee around €20 million excluding wages);
- Mexes and Bonera should stay;
- We might reach an agreement with Valencia shortly for Rami, perhaps including Zapata in the deal;
- Alex is very close to joining as well.

A lot of perhaps' and maybe's, but I wouldn't mind a SES-Negredo-Menez trident for next season. And then Honda, Poli and De Hong in midfield, and Abate, Rami, Mexes and De Sciglio in defense. Third spot would be totally within our reach.
X-Offender
QUOTE (Jack Bauer @ Jun 3 2014, 06:07 PM) *
biggrin.gif They used this line every time Balo got a new coach during his career.


Hehe, true. biggrin.gif
Danny
QUOTE (han2503 @ Jun 3 2014, 12:16 PM) *
The thing is, Mexes is already a Serie A veteran who is already integrated within our side.

With Alex we're getting someone who's never played in Serie A, has been cruising it in the French league for the past few years, who will need to take time in order to get used to a new style of football and a new team


Going by that logic is there any point in signing anyone at all? I know you're a fan of Mexes but he was poor last season and this side needs freshened up with new blood.

I'm not saying Alex is Thiago Silva but perhaps a new face or two in central defence would help. He's certainly not a poor defender - would you reject the return of Silva based on him also having coasted in Ligue 1?

But then you say 'he's done it in Serie A too'. True. He has. But Alex was decent in the EPL for Chelsea too.

We know he isn't Silva, but the 'adapting' argument for me is a poor excuse not to bring in a new player. Sure, sometimes it doesn't work; look at Honda. But plenty of times it does.
han2503
QUOTE (Danny @ Jun 3 2014, 09:15 PM) *
Going by that logic is there any point in signing anyone at all? I know you're a fan of Mexes but he was poor last season and this side needs freshened up with new blood.

I'm not saying Alex is Thiago Silva but perhaps a new face or two in central defence would help. He's certainly not a poor defender - would you reject the return of Silva based on him also having coasted in Ligue 1?

But then you say 'he's done it in Serie A too'. True. He has. But Alex was decent in the EPL for Chelsea too.

We know he isn't Silva, but the 'adapting' argument for me is a poor excuse not to bring in a new player. Sure, sometimes it doesn't work; look at Honda. But plenty of times it does.

My point wasn't really that though. It's basically a move that leaves us in the same water, with a player sort of on a par with Mexes, only he'd have to wade through the waters that every new player has to when joining a new team

That was my point, not that I don't want Alex, because as I said in the later post, I think he'd make a great addition if we were to sell/release the other defenders we have bogging down our roster which aren't going to add much, but we'd also keep Mexes on a reduced wage
Danny
Fair dues, personally I'd choose Alex over Mexes. I find Mexes too much of a liability which undoes the good work he is undeniably capable of.

Same as Negredo over Balo. Sure, maybe the peaks of Mexes and Balo are higher than Alex and Negredo, but the latter arguably give you more on a more consistent basis and their troughs are higher too.
han2503
QUOTE (Danny @ Jun 3 2014, 10:06 PM) *
Fair dues, personally I'd choose Alex over Mexes. I find Mexes too much of a liability which undoes the good work he is undeniably capable of.

Same as Negredo over Balo. Sure, maybe the peaks of Mexes and Balo are higher than Alex and Negredo, but the latter arguably give you more on a more consistent basis and their troughs are higher too.

Don't know about Balo, I'm personally on the fence about that one, depends on what we can potentially make from his sale and if we're prepared to re-invest it

As for Mexes. I don't think he's the liability you're making him out to be. He doesn't have nightmare games like Bonera where he'll cost you 4 goals in a single game. He doesn't have the consistent run of mistakes which are made by someone like Zapata for example, who played a serious couple of stinkers under Allegri this season and Mexes was working triple time trying to cover his and Constant's @sses.

Mexes's biggest flaw is his concentration levels at times. He doesn't do it often but once in a while he has a moment where he's obviously spaced out for a moment and gets caught out.

Still I think him and Alex are both pretty good defenders, they obviously offer different capabilities to the team. But I'd personally never want to directly switch Mexes around with Alex. I just think that Mexes is an overall better defender in terms of tactical awareness, positioning, etc.
X-Offender
According to Sportitalia we're giving €3.8 million to Menez. WTF?! I sincerely hope they're just bullshiting us.
Forza Milan!
QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jun 4 2014, 12:36 AM) *
According to Sportitalia we're giving €3.8 million to Menez. WTF?! I sincerely hope they're just bullshiting us.

I trust news sources about as much as I trust B&G (especially off-season, as they have no real news to report). However, I would not be surprised. We are obsessed with getting players "zero cost", but in order to attract them we need to pay high salaries. (False savings, IMHO.)
Danny
Apparently Menez and Alex are done deals. Just needs a signature and they're ours. I'm personally happy with both.
Danny
QUOTE (han2503 @ Jun 3 2014, 09:39 PM) *
Don't know about Balo, I'm personally on the fence about that one, depends on what we can potentially make from his sale and if we're prepared to re-invest it

As for Mexes. I don't think he's the liability you're making him out to be. He doesn't have nightmare games like Bonera where he'll cost you 4 goals in a single game.


Not really sure why you're bringing Bonera into it?

QUOTE
He doesn't have the consistent run of mistakes which are made by someone like Zapata for example, who played a serious couple of stinkers under Allegri this season and Mexes was working triple time trying to cover his and Constant's @sses.


Or Constant, or Zapata tbh.

I'm not comparing Mexes with other defenders we have, I'm comparing him with Alex.

QUOTE
Mexes's biggest flaw is his concentration levels at times. He doesn't do it often but once in a while he has a moment where he's obviously spaced out for a moment and gets caught out.


Your arduant defence (pun not intended) of both he and Montolivo where you gloss over how cr*p they've actually been by lightly touching on a 'mild flaw' is impressive. Mexes is hot-headed and loses more than just his concentration. He's good in the air (like Bonera - meh, I may as well bring him in too haha) but his discipline is staggeringly poor.

QUOTE
Still I think him and Alex are both pretty good defenders, they obviously offer different capabilities to the team. But I'd personally never want to directly switch Mexes around with Alex. I just think that Mexes is an overall better defender in terms of tactical awareness, positioning, etc.


Fair enough, I think he WAS the above but now is a vastly inferior player to the one he was a couple of seasons ago. I used to highly rate him as you seem to still do but he's really gone downhill and both Allegri and Seedorf barely used him last season.
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