Summer 2012 to 14 is 2 years.

A 'few good results' doesn't mean much?!

He lost 14 f*cking matches in that entire period! Of 52 matches!

Christ, you name yourself after him and his brother and you don't have a clue how he did in the youth sector!

He didn't produce Messi and Ronaldo but 'a few good results' really does p*ss over how decently he did down there.

Or you can just look at how he actually did and realise his namesake here is wrong!

Doesn't have anything to do with my argument though

It actually supports the fact that he did well.

But again, just because he did well with kids who look up to him and some probably even idolise him, doesn't mean he'll do well with pro players.

It's definitely easier when your team (whatever age group they're in) buys into your ideas/philosophy and ultimately respects you. I think those aspects were definitely there with the Primavera, and they were there during the first month, maybe even the second of his stint as our coach, but he clearly lost the players as the season went on. And that's the real tragic thing here. Not that he really isn't tactically savvy

Yes, two years. Sorry. Problem is, you mentioned nurturing players. But in fact he didn't have the time to nurture players, so we don't know if he's good at that. He only adopted Dolcetti's and Stroppa's team.

And yes, he did there pretty good. But it doesn't make him exactly a good youth coach yet, at least not for me.

And for the love of God, can you please stop being personal? Can you stop talking about things you don't know squat? My name has nothing to do with Inzaghi. Yes, I love Pippo and he is inspirational, but really...

I just don't agree. And you're changing the argument. I mentioned nurturing players but it's not the only thing he achieved.



Come on. You can't have a name like Fillipo Simone on a Milan forum and expect people to think it hasn't anything to do with a Rossoneri icon and his brother. I wasn't being personal, I was taking the obvious insinuation from your name.

Just drop the obvious insinuation then please.

You're wanting me to not interpret your name the way it's presented?

You mighta want to have altered it in the first place then!

But, I respect your wishes and retract the original 'accusation', if that's a way of putting it.

Never though about the possibility that Fillipo is my real name, no? In this light, no, I wouldn't change my name because of this discussion and the apparent confusion it causes when I comment on people with the same name. Whatever man, just move on.

I didn't ask you to change it on my account, I meant that when you joined a Milan forum in the first place all those years ago you might have been aware you were using a name (albeit it's your own) which happens also to be the name of a Rossoneri legend (and his brother), and the confusion that could have caused. That's all.



I did.

So, word on the street is that Juve have signed Dybala for €30 million and that are close to signing Cavani.

Tevez, Morata, Dybala, Cavani. I think not!

Cavani is ludicrously overrated.

Do Juve have 30m to spend like that on kid who's had one decent top flight season?

If so I think we could be seeing some departures (Pogba and Vidal)

In his last five seasons he's scored 157 goals in 230 games. Those don't look like the numbers of an overrated player.



Who knows.

Indeed, he's Gilardino. He does it time and time again against the small or mid-table teams, but give him a big match and he chokes like a guy with a pack of peanuts stuffed down his throat.

Does he? I remember with Napoli he used to score against anybody. I think you're writing him off too easily. The guy is a fantastic striker.

I guess it depends what you consider "big games".

Cavani v Serie A...

Roma - 12 games, 8 goals.
Inter - 12 games, 8 goals.
Lazio - 11 games, 7 goals.
Juve - 11 games, 6 goals.
Milan - 12 games, 4 goals.

That's 58 games, 33 goals v the "big 5" in Serie A. When you consider this also includes his games for Palermo against these teams, when he was new to the league and young, that's a very impressive return.

Cavani's overall record in Italy is to score 0.54 goals per game.
Cavani's record v the top teams in Italy is 0.56 goals per game.

So his record actually, very slightly, improves against the better teams.



A few other random ones v top teams in Ligue 1/CL

Lyon - 5 games, 4 goals
Chelsea - 6 games, 2 goals
Marseille - 4 games, 2 goals
Monaco - 4 games, 1 goal
Man City - 2 games, 3 goals
Liverpool - 2 games, 1 goal
Barcelona - 4 games, 0 goals
Bayern - 2 games, 0 goals

Well, Danny?

For me the issue with Cavani, even though he's not a typical CF he still needs a good team around him to produce great numbers. Of course he can still pull off decent numbers without that, but he's not an Ibra, he won't make the rest of the players around him great simply because he's on the field and his movement and vision brings others into it.

I guess if the dream ever came true and we had enough cash to even consider going in for him I'd be okay with spending a sh!t ton of money on Cavani only if we have money left to spend on strengthening our creative side of the team which is terrible

His Serie A days were the days before he became what he is now. A choker.

This season in the UCL he's managed one goal v a 'big team' in Chelsea and that was it.

And a summary of that goal was:



And at Brazil for Uruguay he scored once! He choked at EVERY chance he got.

I don't deny he's not rubbish, but I would absolutely NOT rely on him with 'the' big chance in a critical match against a huge side.

I just don't want him if it would cost us anything more than £20M.

Well, of course, because the other big team they played against was something called Barcelona. It's very easy to score against them, I hear.



Yes, let's base our conclusions on a frigging World Cup performance. Sorry Danny, but I've seen Cavani play for years, and along with the solid stats that Kurt provided, I can easily say the guy is NOT a choker.

Actually is, if you get at their defence. Ask Bayern



I base it on more than that. It's only part of my argument.



Stop stating your opinion as a fact.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4HEpeR4fMc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ib6zoG5jooo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7o7U6i3WBTc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rHfPg4qZO0

That's my opinion.

I think nowadays every player gets labeled as choker. For Christ sake, I hear people talk about Ronaldo as a choker, Messi who cannot deliver without Xavi and Iniesta. So, every medial has two sides. Name me one player who hasn't missed a great opportunity or has a vulnerable side. Christian Vieri almost never scored against Milan, it was a sure thing, him against us - not to score. Does that mean he was bad? Or that he wasn't worth the money? No, he's a club legend, a terrific finisher and goalscorer.

As for Cavani, I think he can deliver. Especially in Serie A, like he proved with Napoli. I can agree that in particularly this season he hasn't been that staggering, but you can go argue deeper and say the same can be said of PSG overall.

Oh and that corner chance, really? This isn't anything special, I don't see how he could have scored so easily from that position. IMO not worth mentioning.

Who would you rely on, exactly?

There aren't that many players in history who have a great record v great sides in the CL. It just doesn't happen very often. Those that do are usually the absolute very best players in the World.

Messi has still yet to score a goal against a good team in the World Cup and has never scored outside of the group stages. I would hardly say this makes him a choker, etc.

In a "bad" season he's scored 28 goals. I think that just goes to show just how incredible a player he is, when that's considered bad.

I thought we were referring to this season. Barça are way stronger, especially defensively, compared to when they faced Bayern two years ago.



An argument based on not very credible foundations, I'm afraid.



My opinion is not a fact, but it is based on facts, and that's something you can't argue with.



Seriously? Four missed chances (one in a friendly game nonetheless, the last one not even that big a deal) are another part of your argument? Sorry mate, but you have to do better than that.

@X - Just so I'm clear: I label him a choker on the big occasions, and that he's a great striker but not reliable at crunch moments, and post videos showing this to be the case, and you tell me to do better than that?

Nah, if you're not interested in what I've posted, that's fine. And I'm done.

@ Kurt - PSG paid Napoli £50M so he'd score those goals. They could have paid £20M for a striker who'd have had a field day in Ligue 1, and even score in the UCL, but they went for £50M for him to score the big moments. A pre-injury Falcao, if you like. And my argument is that he doesn't. Like I said, I would take him at Milan, he's far better than anything outwith Juve, but he DOES have a history of flopping at the vital times where you'd expect a £50M to finish them. Ibra doesn't choke these moments, but he does. It's happened so many times. I didn't really take notice of it till the world cup and that highlighted it perfectly.

Who choked against Milan. And if I'd posted videos of those chokes that would confirm said view. I wouldn't have said Vieri was anything other than a world class striker.

Did I say Cavani was bad? Quote me saying Cavani is bad...



I agree, I think Cavani would be good in Serie A - but I'd use Han's argument here and suggest that he'd struggle in this Milan because we don't create chances. No point getting a prolific goalscorer when the creativity is non-existent.

As for Ronaldo being a choker, wow, anyone saying that really doesn't have a clue about football. The guy beat Sweden on his own, scored in the UCL final and I don't recall the last time I saw him pass up a big chance in a big moment in a big match. Or on the occasions where he did, he'd make up for it in the same match.

Well I guess Shevchenko chocked too. Im not saying he wasnt good at Serie A or regular matches. But he flooped on big games. Is there a more important match than CHL final ? Ergo, if I could transfer a 26-27 years old Andriy Shevchenko I wouldnt do it, cos i wouldnt be able to rely on him.

MY ARGUMENT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqZ1ee2NHOE

I Win. Its over.

I dont think its ok to close the door to others opinions like this. I read more than i write here, but I had to post this. Have a great day.

You labeled him a choker against big sides, that was your argument. Kurt posted some stats that completely proved otherwise. You went on YouTube, typed "Cavani miss" and picked four clips, two of which were not that impressive to begin with. Is that really how you intend to make your point?

Everyone misses chances, even the best of the best. I remember Sheva missing open goals against Cesena and Lazio in the league, or against Liverpool in Istanbul. Did that make him a choker? I don't think so.



Sheva didn't flop in big games. He scored, multiple times, against pretty much every important opponent we ever played against. Inter, Juve, Roma, Barça, Madrid, Bayern, you name it.

Sarcasm bro

I think d'Arc is making a point with that post with regards to this conversation. I think it's silly to label a player a choker unless they have a serious prolonged history of not showing up in big matches

For example you can certainly make a case for Ibra in the CL as he's let his team down in many matches in the competition whereas in league play any team he plays for simply relies on him to deliver the goods week in week out

But you see, this is where you and Han are sometimes wrong. You must acknowledge that there are multiple facts laying around and that not only your opinion is fact-based. People always get into arguments believing facts are on their side. History is full of such events. And as it happens so, rarely does one side has (so to say) the better facts then the other.

That being said, with what Kurt posted, I'm inclined to say this is one of the times. Cavani, in my book, really isn't a choker.


You said "ludicrously overrated". Well, I don't think he is.



Exactly.

THANK YOU !

Depends on what facts you are basing your opinion on. Even numbers sometimes can be misleading. You know I'm not a stats man. For example, I never really put much faith in the stats Kurt used to post in regards to Allegri when he was defending him, because there were many other factors that played a role there.

But this time around, the situation is very simple. A striker, who scores plenty of times against big sides, simply cannot be labeled as a choker. Simple as. And the facts are there to back it up.

OK, did not get that.

I'll say this. In 3 years if we get back to where we belong (ha!) and Cavani is somehow playing for us and we're in a massive CL match and he's through on goal v Neuer or whoever, I hope it's me who's proven wrong and not you lot.

That's a LOT of hypotheticals

It's a lot of misguided belief on my part we'll even be in EUROPE in three years.

Or we could be in Serie B (in three years) and pray that we had a striker like Cavani This is as possible as us getting back to Europe

Sadly it is. Either this summer we sink further or finally start to reverse this decline. I'd go as far as saying it's the most important three months in Milan's history.

I think for us to reverse the decline will depend mostly on Galliani. With him still running amuck I can't see any changes

We need serious rehabilitation within the squad

The coach first and foremost needs to go, as well as certain players who have no business playing for this team. I'm personally expecting a major exodus this summer no matter what happens with the management

Man, you're really fixated on Galliani.

Yep, I mean at this point it's pointless to keep changing things around every year when the true source of our issues stays.

He's made a mockery of this club imo, our reputation thanks to him went down the toilet years ago, and for the life of me, I cannot understand why someone like Silvio who I personally think and would assume is a smart man, would allow things with Galliani to spiral so much. Surely if it was any other director in any of his other companies that was running things this way he'd be gone by now

Lazio 1-2 Roma

Roma 70
Lazio 66
Napoli 63

And guess what, next week there's Napoli-Lazio. If Napoli win, they're 3rd. It's gonna be very interesting.

Either one of those will most likely f@ck it up next season in the qualifier so it doesn't matter much imo

Because Napoli fucked it up once doesn't make it automatic.

Don't swear.

But yes. Repetition isn't the core of logic.

I feel like I want Lazio to make it, it seems like forever since they were in the CL and I grew up with them being a pretty good team so would be nice to see them back.

If they're not at their best they will, they only made it through the qualifiers once IIRC. It's just typical. I personally don't think Lazio would make it through unless they get someone seriously easy. They'll probably lose their best players this summer anyway, already talk of Anderson leaving