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acid911
Yeah, you are right, R7. cool.gif Don't know about Jack, but a couple of years back though, I had a fleeting feeling that you were Silvio Berlusconi in disguise. tongue.gif The way you used to defend the guy, and even Galliani. I still would have been in the negative camp if it were not for some display of vision last year with some nice signings.

Now, it seems the management is serious about rebuilding. And that's always good. smile.gif It's not just about having 100 million euros transfer windows, but almost zero movements during the transfer season never bodes well for anyone.
Dracoris
Only 9mil? Were we not just evaluated at 500mil recently? Id say he made an incredible investment!
Jack Sparrow
He purchased the club for 9 mill. Then he started plunging money into it. The training facilities, the Milan Lab, the villas for his fav players(Sheva comes to mind), and of course transfers.

Don't forget every loss made by Milan is covered from Finninvest profits. So i would think he's actually made a huge loss from Milan than profit.

This season's possible scudetto alone has cost Berlusca 70 million. biggrin.gif


I like Berlusca. He's like one of those old uncles. You don't particularly like them much, but you like that whenever they visit they bring presents. biggrin.gif I'm a bad,ungrateful person! sleep.gif
Rossoneri7
QUOTE
Fininvest to pay 560 mln euros damages to CIR by July 26
AFX | July 21, 2011 | 05:39 AM EDT
Click Click


So what now? We wait till August 31st dry.gif
acid911
QUOTE (Rossoneri7 @ Jul 26 2011, 09:05 PM) *
So what now? We wait till August 31st

Nope. smile.gif July 27. tongue.gif Seriously, I have little hopes of that elusive "Mr. X". It's just a sucker punch, a diversion, a game of sorts that the management and the coach are playing on the fans/media. We were a strong team last season, we are even stronger at the time of this writing. El Shaarawy, Taiwo, Mexes plus Paloschi are good enough.

At best we'll get Kaka on loan to patch and plaster up the midfield and inject some creativity.
X-Offender
QUOTE (acid911 @ Jul 26 2011, 06:45 PM) *
Nope. smile.gif July 27. tongue.gif Seriously, I have little hopes of that elusive "Mr. X". It's just a sucker punch, a diversion, a game of sorts that the management and the coach are playing on the fans/media. We were a strong team last season, we are even stronger at the time of this writing. El Shaarawy, Taiwo, Mexes plus Paloschi are good enough.

At best we'll get Kaka on loan to patch and plaster up the midfield and inject some creativity.


You'll be proven wrong.
acid911
QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jul 26 2011, 10:23 PM) *
You'll be proven wrong.

I'd love to be! innocent.gif king.gif Even if I am not, I still am contend with the team and direction the club is heading in. Some nice focus on youth, a bunch of seniors leaving next season, and some established players coming in. There's much more to ask, of course, but I'm not complaining with what I am getting.

Of course, a top world class AM would make us a bit more competitive in Europe, and that's always nice.
Fillipo Simone
QUOTE
We were a strong team last season, we are even stronger at the time of this writing. El Shaarawy, Taiwo, Mexes plus Paloschi are good enough.

Minus Pirlo. We are not good enough, we simply lack creative solutions and unless we sign at least one such player we'll be seeing a idea less Milan for a bigger part of the season.

QUOTE
Of course, a top world class AM would make us a bit more competitive in Europe, and that's always nice.

This season Serie A won't be as it was in 2010-11. Teams are getting rapidly stronger. A top world class AM wouldn't just be nice or help a bit in Europe, he's essential for a strong Milan, in Italy, and in Europe.
X-Offender
QUOTE (acid911 @ Jul 26 2011, 07:32 PM) *
Some nice focus on youth, a bunch of seniors leaving next season, and some established players coming in.


Let's hope so. We've been saying that for quite a while now, but Galliani keeps renewing their contracts. sad.gif
Fillipo Simone
Again, I have nothing against veterans staying at Milan if they agree to a rotational or bench player role while we bring quality substitute players.
han2503
QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Jul 26 2011, 08:15 PM) *
Minus Pirlo. We are not good enough, we simply lack creative solutions and unless we sign at least one such player we'll be seeing a idea less Milan for a bigger part of the season.


This season Serie A won't be as it was in 2010-11. Teams are getting rapidly stronger. A top world class AM wouldn't just be nice or help a bit in Europe, he's essential for a strong Milan, in Italy, and in Europe.

Agreed

We're weaker then last season imo, no Pirlo, Seedorf is only getting older and therefore we cannot rely on his sparrodic patches of form anymore. Our midfield is decimated with only 2 quality players in there. Forget about the CL, if we don't improve our midfield we'll struggle to maintain out Serie A title. Inter won't be weak like last season while other teams have, as you said, vastly improved.

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jul 26 2011, 10:28 PM) *
Let's hope so. We've been saying that for quite a while now, but Galliani keeps renewing their contracts. sad.gif

Exactly

QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Jul 26 2011, 10:30 PM) *
Again, I have nothing against veterans staying at Milan if they agree to a rotational or bench player role while we bring quality substitute players.

The problem is that those veterans are our captain/co-captains, so we'll be seeing one of them starting in most games. Gattuso and Ambro being at the forefront. And imo those 2 simply cannot start games for us anymore. Imo keeping them all on was a mistake because it gives the management a false sense of security and more excuses not to transfer in some much needed players for that midfield
Fillipo Simone
Well, IMO their staying gave the management the needed and necessary time. It gave them time to deal with the AM/creative solutions now, and delayed the Dm problem for a bit. Granted, this is a risky job and both Ambro and Rino are in decline, but I still have faith and believe they can hold on. If we manage to solve the creative problem this summer and in January, it will look more brighter and we'll have a whole summer to lament whether Lass Diarra is more suitable then Asamoah etc.

Also, our management isn't prepared to let go of all veterans at once. I think they found a solution to the "veteran problem" last year and will hang on to it as long as they can. Whereas in 2008. or 2009. Milan had a big age issue and the "veteran problem" was immanent, it think we're now safe and sound. I still think that Ambro and Rino have something to offer; will they start matches? Sure, but I'm positive Allegri will bench both if the under perform while at the same time Urby or Flamini do substantially better.

Albeit this summer offers us a chance to pick up a okay/good DM (Lass) for cheap money, I am not convinced we'll found in him what we had with Rino or Ambro at their peak. People are generally more sensitive when it comes to replacing players like Pirlo, Sheva or even Nesta, but are willing to see the DM position as a position that can easily be filled with "just another solid DM". But IMO Flamini proved how rare a quality DM of Rino's or Ambro's caliber shows up. While he did decent in his last season from time to time, he did not convince me a second as a heir or a natural starter solution.

So, my punchline is - now we're dealing with the problem of a creative player, afterwards with the DM problem.
I know we could have avoided it with keeping Pirlo and letting Ambro+Rino go, but our management decided to pick the easy way.
han2503
QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Jul 27 2011, 10:49 AM) *
Well, IMO their staying gave the management the needed and necessary time. It gave them time to deal with the AM/creative solutions now, and delayed the Dm problem for a bit. Granted, this is a risky job and both Ambro and Rino are in decline, but I still have faith and believe they can hold on. If we manage to solve the creative problem this summer and in January, it will look more brighter and we'll have a whole summer to lament whether Lass Diarra is more suitable then Asamoah etc.

Also, our management isn't prepared to let go of all veterans at once. I think they found a solution to the "veteran problem" last year and will hang on to it as long as they can. Whereas in 2008. or 2009. Milan had a big age issue and the "veteran problem" was immanent, it think we're now safe and sound. I still think that Ambro and Rino have something to offer; will they start matches? Sure, but I'm positive Allegri will bench both if the under perform while at the same time Urby or Flamini do substantially better.

Albeit this summer offers us a chance to pick up a okay/good DM (Lass) for cheap money, I am not convinced we'll found in him what we had with Rino or Ambro at their peak. People are generally more sensitive when it comes to replacing players like Pirlo, Sheva or even Nesta, but are willing to see the DM position as a position that can easily be filled with "just another solid DM". But IMO Flamini proved how rare a quality DM of Rino's or Ambro's caliber shows up. While he did decent in his last season from time to time, he did not convince me a second as a heir or a natural starter solution.

So, my punchline is - now we're dealing with the problem of a creative player, afterwards with the DM problem.
I know we could have avoided it with keeping Pirlo and letting Ambro+Rino go, but our management decided to pick the easy way.

Rino and Ambro's quality has been gone a long time, so we've been playing with them starting for at least 2 seasons now with them under-performing. Last season mostly, Rino on the right was like having a little kid running around with no aim,. Quality DMs are easier to find then say, FBs, Flamini might not have turned out as we've expected but I'd rather see him starting then either Rino or Ambro. We simply cannot continue this way, especially not in Europe where they get exposed for what they are every time.

With Seedorf staying, at least one of Rino or Ambro should have been let go. I really don't see what they have left to offer, and personally I don't think this is the last season for them at Milan.
Rossoneri7
QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Jul 27 2011, 01:49 PM) *
Well, IMO their staying gave the management the needed and necessary time. It gave them time to deal with the AM/creative solutions now, and delayed the Dm problem for a bit. Granted, this is a risky job and both Ambro and Rino are in decline, but I still have faith and believe they can hold on. If we manage to solve the creative problem this summer and in January, it will look more brighter and we'll have a whole summer to lament whether Lass Diarra is more suitable then Asamoah etc.

Also, our management isn't prepared to let go of all veterans at once. I think they found a solution to the "veteran problem" last year and will hang on to it as long as they can. Whereas in 2008. or 2009. Milan had a big age issue and the "veteran problem" was immanent, it think we're now safe and sound. I still think that Ambro and Rino have something to offer; will they start matches? Sure, but I'm positive Allegri will bench both if the under perform while at the same time Urby or Flamini do substantially better.

Albeit this summer offers us a chance to pick up a okay/good DM (Lass) for cheap money, I am not convinced we'll found in him what we had with Rino or Ambro at their peak. People are generally more sensitive when it comes to replacing players like Pirlo, Sheva or even Nesta, but are willing to see the DM position as a position that can easily be filled with "just another solid DM". But IMO Flamini proved how rare a quality DM of Rino's or Ambro's caliber shows up. While he did decent in his last season from time to time, he did not convince me a second as a heir or a natural starter solution.

So, my punchline is - now we're dealing with the problem of a creative player, afterwards with the DM problem.
I know we could have avoided it with keeping Pirlo and letting Ambro+Rino go, but our management decided to pick the easy way.


+1

Quality is hard to find, yet Milan always seem to find a gem ... I hope they replace Ambro/Gattuso with one 96.gif
X-Offender
I think Ambro still has it in him for another year. I think he's perfect as vice-Van Bommel. Gattuso, on the other hand, is another story. The guy is so bad I can't see him in any possible position in midfield.
acid911
QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jul 28 2011, 03:17 AM) *
I think Ambro still has it in him for another year. I think he's perfect as vice-Van Bommel. Gattuso, on the other hand, is another story. The guy is so bad I can't see him in any possible position in midfield.

Very much agreed. smile.gif I was of the view that we should have kept Pirlo and Ambro, and said graceful goodbyes to Gattuso and Seedorf. The first one because he still had something to give, and the second one because he is not just the club captain, but still a utility player, and one that can play for another 1-2 years.

Of course, none of it happened, we let the wrong guy guy go (for free, I may add) and kept almost all of our seniors.
Fillipo Simone
QUOTE
Rino and Ambro's quality has been gone a long time, so we've been playing with them starting for at least 2 seasons now with them under-performing. Last season mostly, Rino on the right was like having a little kid running around with no aim,. Quality DMs are easier to find then say, FBs, Flamini might not have turned out as we've expected but I'd rather see him starting then either Rino or Ambro. We simply cannot continue this way, especially not in Europe where they get exposed for what they are every time.

I understand your point...but the bolded parts are questionable to me at least.

Long time is a relative thing, if you consider 1-1,5 years as a long time, that's sure. I think Ambro has been undeniably good under Leo which wasn't that awfully long ago. Rino wasn't exactly bad last season, but yes, he's been finished for at least 2 or 3 years.

And you had to take the FB example...I mean, is there a more harder position to fill then the fullback? Maybe only the regista position or from times to time the AM, but IMO quality fullbacks can be counted on the fingers of two hands maybe.
han2503
QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Jul 28 2011, 01:40 PM) *
I understand your point...but the bolded parts are questionable to me at least.

Long time is a relative thing, if you consider 1-1,5 years as a long time, that's sure. I think Ambro has been undeniably good under Leo which wasn't that awfully long ago. Rino wasn't exactly bad last season, but yes, he's been finished for at least 2 or 3 years.

And you had to take the FB example...I mean, is there a more harder position to fill then the fullback? Maybe only the regista position or from times to time the AM, but IMO quality fullbacks can be counted on the fingers of two hands maybe.

Ambro had a good few months under Leo, but looking at the overall picture he hasn't had a really good season in a long time imo. Gattuso is a moot point, last season was average/bad compared to what Rino could really do in his good days

I think it's harder to find a top class central creative mid then it is to find a top DM.
Jack Bauer
We are two goals away from 2000 during the Berlusconi era.

here's most of the scorers:

acid911
Maldini. 33 Goals. wub.gif Bliss! Pure bliss!
Fillipo Simone
Silvio Berlusconi just stepped down as Italy's PM. It's a gain for both Italy and Milan.
acid911
And not a moment too late. sleep.gif He went nice and easy, sadly his time at the post was anything but.
han2503
QUOTE (acid911 @ Nov 12 2011, 10:54 PM) *
And not a moment too late. sleep.gif He went nice and easy, sadly his time at the post was anything but.

I really don't feel sorry for Italy, they're the ones that elected him for I don't know how many times. The big f@ck up is that if they go down, they'll take all of us with them at this point
acid911
QUOTE (han2503 @ Nov 13 2011, 06:27 PM) *
I really don't feel sorry for Italy, they're the ones that elected him for I don't know how many times. The big f@ck up is that if they go down, they'll take all of us with them at this point

Yeah, I know man, been reading up about it for the past few weeks. sad.gif What concerns me is the fact that knowing Mr. B I wouldn't elect him as the president of my local "Theater Owners Association", let alone the man to lead the country in a time of such crisis. I don't know how (and why) they did it. I mean, any sane Milan fan would think a dozen times.

I respect him for what he does for the club, and it's a two-way street, afterall. But PM? Of Italy? Again? And Again?
Fillipo Simone
Well, it has to do with the political situation of the 90'ies and the modern history of Italy. It's very complicated.

But if you say I can vote either for Prodi or Berlusconi, I'd take Silvio in a minute. One of the crucial Italian points in electing Berlusconi is that you could rely on having a government that lasts at least 2-3 years.
acid911
QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Nov 13 2011, 06:51 PM) *
One of the crucial Italian points in electing Berlusconi is that you could rely on having a government that lasts at least 2-3 years.

This. sleep.gif You just have to see the whole lost of previous governments and how much time they spent to get an idea. Berlusconi has been at the top for 9 of the past 17 yersa. But still, the Italian nation as a whole needed a leader to guide them through these tough, hard years, and this guy was not that.

But hey, at least, he stepped down nice and easy. Anyway, the coutry is not as bad as Greece, that's got to count for something. It's the soverign debt of €1.9 trillion that's giving the sinking feeling.
Fillipo Simone
Well, who is? Barack Obama? Sarkozy? Cameron? None of them found the right answer to economic problems of the 21st century. Angela Merkel does a good job IMO, at least a better job then most of the state leaders.
acid911
QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Nov 13 2011, 07:20 PM) *
Well, who is? Barack Obama? Sarkozy? Cameron? None of them found the right answer to economic problems of the 21st century. Angela Merkel does a good job IMO, at least a better job then most of the state leaders.

Agreed. And about Angela Merkel too, she is doing a fine job, but hey, it's Germany. biggrin.gif I do know of their problems (massive unemployment for one) before she was elected Chancellor, and yes, like you said, she does a pretty good job, but she has an excellent infrastructure to make her job (slightly) easy.

The rest of the leaders are in deep, though, and not a single one of them have the right answers.

han2503
QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Nov 13 2011, 03:20 PM) *
Well, who is? Barack Obama? Sarkozy? Cameron? None of them found the right answer to economic problems of the 21st century. Angela Merkel does a good job IMO, at least a better job then most of the state leaders.

Well if you look at Europe, which are the countries that are in terrible financial situations? Italy, Greece and Spain, it's no surprise that they are all mediterranean countries. And I say that because it's the same culture we have here in Malta, the "oh it will get done later, I have to have a siesta right now". It's just that attitude that tipifies these countries. Germany, Sweden, etc, none of these countries have these problems and imo their mentality has a big part in it
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