I don't think he was really coming out of anything in those last few games, I personally always think he's solid defensively but he's been terrible going forward for a while now, and that hasn't really changed this season in any of the games imo

As for SES, I don't know how you can come to the conclusion that it's been 4 years of him being terrible, you make it sound like he came here as some big star not as the teenage prospect that he was and we knew nothing about...

SES' first season he was mostly used as a sub/Coppa player, don't forget that season we still had Ibra, Robinho, Pato and the rest of the gang, it's understandable that a kid making the jump from Serie B to Serie A with those names ahead of him on the team sheet wouldn't make a huge splash, but he did still have some memorable moments that season (that great, crucial goal vs Udine springs to mind)

His second season he was on fire and topping the scoring charts at one point along with Cavani, this while the team was badly struggling. Yes he faded away in the second part of that season, no arguments there.

Last season, what can you say about last season? He was injured for nearly the entirety of it, how that can translate to another horrible season by your account is beyond me

This season again, he's been bad, agree there, but he's started what 10 games? If that.


I was talking about DS there because of Seedorf moving him to the right last season and we (you and I) were blaming his performances on that


True, my bafflement mostly comes from the sheer vitriol that comes with it, it actually feels like SES did something bad to you guys, I just don't understand that part of it. I understand being disappointed and giving up on him, but for example, the zero and calling him names in your rating when he barley played for 5 minutes? Just totally unnecessary. If it was anyone else, you'd have flagged Pippo for being an @sshole for bringing him on so late on


Re: Above

I am a fan of SES, contrary to many of the viewpoints on here. His best years for this team came when he was the central player in our system. His first year here he was never going to be the leader of the team with Ibra, Robinho, Pato all in front of him. Then we cleared house and he went on a run of great form scoring 14 goals in the league before January. Then we brought in Balotelli, and he became second fiddle again.

When he is out there he gives it all for the team, and I believe that it is just a matter of time before he finds his form again. I honestly believe that he is suited to play as a second striker, as it has been pointed out many times that he is not a dribbler in the mold of Menez, Taarabt, or a player like Gervinho for Roma. I do think he is a good finisher, and his best position is playing off of a Central Striker who can absorb pressure from the central backs.

I see no problem with hanging on to a young player with potential, especially when the alternatives are players with a piss poor attitude, and worse work ethic. At least El Sha will defend and give it all to the team when he isn't scoring goals.

Teenage prospect or otherwise he's been a disappointment.



I didn't call him names? I said his performance was shite. I never call players names. Zero because he was just terrible. Actually no it was a wise substitution because Menez was absolutely spent (and mildly injured) and we needed quick fresh legs to take us over the last 5 or so minutes. The 5 minutes which were vital. It didn't really matter WHO Pippo brought on there, had it been Torres, Pazzo or SES - we need fresh legs to hold the ball up as much as possible.

As for Pippo being an *sshole, he was one when he brought MvG on for literally 30 seconds a few matches ago. That was just an insult. But 5+ minutes when you need fresh legs up top? Wise sub. Even if SES didn't play well.

SES is actually very, very popular among the fanbase. He's not on this forum, but the wider support loves the guy's freakin' guts. So you're maybe in minority here but majority support-wide.

Ok so Taarabt was dating this girl i meant in london yesterday, she claims he's moving back to Milan in January. He drinks almost every night, stays up till 2/3am and wakes up to train at 7am. This habit because he is not happy at qpr.

She added, before going to Milan he rarely drank, didnt even stay up late. But since he came back to london, he has picked up bad habits.

Not aure if she is full of ahite or not, but im hoping we can take him on in jan. He has what it takes to do well at 'this' milan.

Takes a month for an out of shape player to get back into it. Doesn't matter what he's doing now, it's what he'd do for us and I agree with you, he can be a player for this Milan.

Lots of rumors on Cerci for January and Torres off to Atletico or in Brazil.

Atleti haven't denied interest. Swap deal for Cerci.

I'd grab that quicker than you can say Nino.

If Cerci was any good they wouldn't be trying to offload him a few months into his stay after the money they paid for him

Especially not as a swap for a finished Torres

But it wouldn't be the first time they offload a player with only few real chances.

Question is, how would Cerci fit into our gameplan? Do we need him? I think we need different kinds of players much more.

I'm not fond of Cerci, but between him and Torres I'd choose the latter in a heartbeat.



Considering we ply 4-3-3 and Cerci is a winger, I'd say he fits perfectly.

Torres has gone to Atletico and Cerci is ours.

Swap deal agreed with Atleti for 18 months.

Best Xmas present we could have had.

Fantastic deal - get rid of the worst striker this Club has ever seen and replace him with a high-quality 27 year winger.

You'll remember I was aching for us to get Alessio in the summer - I don't mind it being 6 months late.

Getting rid of Torres into the bargain is just sweet as treacle.

+1

Agreed. I was never sold on Torres, yet I expected a little more out of him. Not 100% sure about Cerci either, but it feels like we are coming out ahead. Have to wonder why Atletico is doing this, though ...

They have many wingers but only one pure striker (Mandzukic). They need a backup for him.

I gave him every chance (and indeed was actually optimistic we could turn him around) but by about October it was plain to see he was a total flop. He is absolutely finished and only misguided sentiment from Atleti is making them take him back.

Meanwhile we now get to see Cerci and Menez on our wings, with hopefully a new striker brought in to finish the job.

Destro, anyone?

Or Immobile. Get him along with Cerci, and third place secured? Maybe?

Yeah, SES for Immobile and we have a very nice Menez-Immobile-Cerci attack.

Man, I'm feeling dirty handing out two duds for two better players to two of the clubs I like the most. I just hope if these two signings happen (well, Immobile, I mean), then SES and Torres perform as expected at their new locations. Going to feel a little bad about that inside, though I know it's just me.

But we'll have a very capable attack if it happens, and not just on paper. Results should come.

I would be ok with SES leaving on a loan, but selling him, not at all. Ok Cerci is good, but not that good as you making him. But if he's already ours, I would like Milan to go after a striker and to get rid of Pazzini. But since that not impossible, since Milan wont be able to buy a striker that we need, I'd rather see SES - Menez - Cerci. I'm sure SES will be back strong after the break.

Big Cerci fan. One of the better players in Serie A over the last few years. Thanks it the Christmas present Milan!

It turns out that Milan will continue to pay Torres' salary while he's at Atlético Madrid. The Spanish club will keep paying Cerci.

Torres will return to Milan if Atlético Madrid decide to sell Cerci to another club next summer.

Milan Channel has also confirmed that the negotiations for the Cerci-Torres loan swap deal are at an advanced stage.

The last few details regarding the Cerci-Torres loan swap deal will be sorted out after Christmas.

source: milanello/twitter

http://lineupbuilder.com/?sk=5vx30

Yes?

Is the Cerci -> Torres thing official?

Not yet.

Lots of rumours going about re: Cerci deal.

Torres to Atletico is done but apparently WE will be paying the wages?!

Cerci hold up is due to him apparently not being overly enthusiastic about joining Milan - his preference is reportedly Inter, God knows why.

It may go through still but we may end up with a player who doesn't fully want to be here. But supposedly he was told Milan or stay at Atleti.

PS: reports are, on top of the fact he's been a dud at Atleti (due to their play style), that's he's overweight and not fit.

Hope this all works out, he comes here, isn't unfit, is raring to go, and the stuff about him wanting Inter is either untrue or no longer matters.

That's too much hope in one sentence, bud. Even for me!

Well maybe not - word is the deal is stalling over wages and conditions, and the Inter story is being spread by Interistas annoyed he's choosing us over them after they courted him for ages.

So, maybe ok after all.

Ha, nice to know. The Inter bit, I mean. The news is hot though, and several of my friends that don't follow Milan are in on it, many thought that only formalities remained. They do know Torres though, so that's probably why. But fingers crossed for a breakthrough, though, of some sorts here.

Our attack is toothless, and that's putting it mildly.


Yeah, just hope whatever happens is good for all parties involved, both clubs and both players. Have soft feelings for all four, and truly, this is one deal that makes sense on so many levels. Could do everyone some good, and as for Torres, well, maybe he can find his drift where it all started.

Even if he doesn't, it will be a full circle for one very good player. Fingers crossed, as said.

Actually I'd argue it's one great striker away from being brilliant. Menez might be selfish at times but the guy is outrageously talented and scores goals all manner of ways. When he plays like he did V Roma & Napoli he's got every chance of getting back into the French NT. It's inconsistency & attitude that's stopped him getting to the very top of the game. Now add a borderline world class winger (let's not lie, he isn't world class, but he IS very, very good) in Cerci and it just needs that one great goalscorer - an Immobile or Destro is fine by me.



Meh, I don't share your goodwill re: Torres. I don't give a toosh what happens to him, he's the worst striker I've ever seen at Milan, including Oliveira. He's let down so many of us Rossoneri who had faith in him, and he himself classed the San Siro as his new 'hunting ground'. Hunting what? Ducks? That arrogance coupled with his failure to deliver means I truly ain't interested in what happens to him now.

PS we're also trying to sign Asier Illarramendi on loan. Not sure if that's as a replacement for De Jong or as a backup. Or as well as. Not sure why we'd start with two DMs though.

Right now, real possibility of 2015's Milan being:

------------------------Lopez

Abate----------Alex---------------Zapata/Rami------MDS

-----Montolivo------De Jong------Illa/Bona

-----Menez---------Immobile/Destro--------Cerci

I'm going to be blunt, if that came to pass it would be by a hundred miles the best Milan team we've had since Zlatan's. It would also be a top 3 side in this league. Might even be the best. And is far far more worthy of the Milan name than the shambles we've had for far too long.

Not quite as strong as the Sheva or Kaka-esque Milan of mid-noughties, but much more like what we'd expect. We're not able to sign the world's best players any more, but in the market we ARE in, the above would be absolutely marvellous.

Immobile or Destro for me are both players we should stay away from, especially Destro.

As for Cerci, I'm more than willing to give him a chance, see how he does with us, but I don't understand how the logistics of such a deal could ever work out since some people are forgetting the small detail that we do not OWN Torres, he's with us on loan from Chelsea and they're still paying part of his wages. So how can we swap-loan a player that we do not own?

If Cerci came I'd love to see the formation Danny posted above but with SES as the striker.

Indeed. I'd pass Destro especially as well.

Chelsea have Costa, Drogba, and Remy. Do you really think they care about Torres, especially the way he has been playing in recent years? (My sense is they are not going to get in the way of any deal as long as it does not involve another EPL team.)

As for SES, I really, really wanted him to succeed. However, at this point I would not mind if he was to depart, as long as we get reasonable value in return.

Apparently Cerci really wants to go to Inter. Meh, what a tw@t...

And just as I wrote that, Sky reports that Cerci has agreed to sign for us. It's almost official.

Whether Chelsea want him or not isn't really the issue here, I don't think they'd care either, BUT we do not own him, so I still don't understand how we could loan him, even if Chelsea don't care, is it even possible to loan a player we don't own? That's what I don't understand, i.e. can the deal really be completed in the manner the media is reporting?

As for SES, I want to see him given a proper chance in the striker position as that is his more natural position imo and he has never been given an opportunity to play there

As for his price, if we sell him now we'd be getting a small amount as he's not in great form and he's coming off an entire season out from injury.

After van Ginkel, yet another mercenary who doesn't wanna be at the club but has no alternative it seems. Great.

Truthfully Pippo? Few players want to go to Milan these days. The only way we can attract them is with wages. We have no CL (or even Europe) to offer and we're midtable.

There's also the problem, in Cerci's case, that his current (former?) manager has such close ties to Inter that it may have 'brainwashed' Alessio into preferring them, on top of the calamatous handling of our own pursuit of him last summer. And of course the simple fact they're in the Europa League and look certain to get to the last 16 past Celtic.

Ultimately we got him, and rid of Torres. Ok it seems he's not a thousand percent loved-up on the idea of us, but do you think anyone we signed last summer really was? As long as he does the job on the pitch and we get stronger, and maybe just maybe get that third CL spot and slowly become more lucrative so players will WANT to come to us rather than it being 'third choice' or whatever.

This was a VERY unique loan deal. It was a free transfer in every respect bar the wording. No one goes out on loan for 24 months. It just doesn't happen.

He essentially became our player, we took on all the paperwork, we paid the wages, not a transfer fee, and by the time the loan is over he's a free agent.

That said there's conflicting stories here about who is actually loaning him. Some say Chelsea are, others say us. And there's the bizarre situation where we're going to pay his wages while he's at Atletico. While they pay Cerci's.

It's truly weird.

He and Immobile are the only two strikers we've been linked to and both are far superior to SES based on goals/form over the past 12+ months. They score goals, for one. Something he doesn't do any more.

But I accept neither are exactly Costa.

But who else do you think this current Milan can actually attract?

Can't see us getting Illa, most likely our midfield will be Monto De Jong and Bona with Muntari, Essien and MvG in reserve.

As for SES, I won't flog my dead horse on this and would appreciate it if you don't either, but what would your reaction be if we do get another striker (be it Destro, Immobile or another) and he starts scoring immediately? Would you still prefer SES?

I really don't think Inter being in the EL has anything to do with it. I also don't think Simeone pushed him to Inter because from what I've been reading Atletico were furious at Cerci for risking the operation.

As far as I know, he promised to Mancini that he'd go there. That was before our offer to Atletico. Hence all the stalling. Atletico threatened Cerci he'd warm the bench for the rest of the season if he didn't accept our destination, because they badly wanted Torres.

Cerci on Twitter/FB said that he didn't have any preferences, but that he was simply evaluating all possibilities.

Milan Channel has confirmed that Cerci has agreed to join Milan.

So he's not, to quote you, a t*at?

As an aside, is he a left or RW? The pic of him on his Wiki has him as a RW but he's clearly using his left foot.

Depending on what you believe...



He's a RW.

Agreed. But what is Inter offering? An even more depressing season with hopes of once again reaching Europa whereas we fight for the CL? As far as I see it, Cerci isn't exactly a star. He's a flop for Atleti who had 1 good season in Italy. I'd understand the kind of reasoning if it was Mandzukić or Costa we're talking about, but it's Torino's Cerci.

So if the guy prefers an even more unstable environment at Inter, I don't think it's a good buy. It shows he has not heart in this venture, it shows his ambitions are questionable as well. The only thing Inter have at the moment over us is maybe a better wage offer and the Europa league venture. The latter being a very questionable preference motive.


Destro is a big gamble I wouldn't take. He isn't exactly a prolific goalscorer and we need one who is.

The way I see it, we can either search for a more seasoned short-term goalscorer like Gilardino (why not indeed?), Gignac or who knows who or a young talent like Kramarić. There are certainly some fine prospects who would be more lucrative for us then the struggling Destro or Immobile (who won't leave Dortmund anyhow).

I was mostly talking about the general concept of the line-up/formation you posted not the specific names, if that were the case I'd have commented on the Rami/Zapata thing over Mexes for example

With SES, you know where I stand and I know where you stand.

For me selling him now while his price is at it's lowest and we'd be losing money on what we initially paid to get him would be plain stupid. I personally don't see Destro or Immobile as superior to him, at all. And personally speaking I'd like to see him getting a proper chance in a position that imo he's more suited to. But that's just me.

As for your scenario, I'd obviously be on board if any player we signed turns into a scoring machine (I just don't see that as likely), even if it means SES sitting out more for now

For me if it's a choice between Immobile or Destro, I'd definitely pick Immobile, I personally don't rate Destro, plus Roma want a lot of cash for him.

With SES in general, I don't see why it has to be an either or situation

SES is versatile, and if we do sign some other striker it doesn't mean that SES is definitely out of the picture (especially since Pippo mostly sees him as a winger)

What makes you think his price will increase in the future?