Well, they were probably excited they were 3-0 at the end of the first half in a CL final, it's only natural. But I doubt they were actually celebrating it.

I'm not so sure. For such a conclusion, I'd got to have more arguments and facts. If I pull out that Carlo was excellent with Reggiana in his first season, but then you could argue that his team was also world class in Serie B ranks. Then we have Parma and Juve, which can also be taken as class teams..so...this can be based only on that 1 Milan season. Not enough.

The Parma run imo was impressive, but as you say, at that time he had a squad full of young talented players, so....

If the Euro Super Cup and the Fifa Club World Cup titles are BS to you, for me they are just as important. Since I am not a European, I know exactly what the FCWC stands for. Many European teams play their strongest XI to win it when they get a chance. And just to add on that the last time we lifted that trophy was in 1990, that was when the world truly grasped the concept of the Dutch Trio and how I got a chance to be a fan in the first place.

In order for a team to compete for those trophies you need to win the biggest prize in European football. If you degrade them, well, we simply can not reach a moral understanding.

I didn't say Juve was weak. I said Milan flew the Italian flag throughout those years in that competition alone. No team in Europe could complete a feat to reach the final three times in four years?

You don't need to praise him han ... You don't need to give him recognition for anything, what he did at Milan is already written and set in stone. He is a person all the coming coaches will aspire to outdo; Leonardo, Allegri, and so on and so forth, till he is outdone. He is one of the most successful coaches to have played their trade at Milan.

Teams don't go into the CL just at the possibility to win the CWC, the ultimate prize is the CL itself, the CWC and super cup are side gravies. Sure I like my meat with a little gravy on it, but I'd be just as happy with the juicy steak alone anyway.

Like I said, Milan only flew the flag in 07, other years Inter and Juve got far into the CL. Flying the flag meens going through the KOs when all the other Italian teams are out, aside from 07 that was not the case.

I praise him for what he should be praised for, but I don't glorify him like you do. He achieved great things, but also made a lot of mistakes along the way, and that is the way I'll always see Carlo

Glorify him ? Was that glorifying ? Then what do you call the Mourinho mental-masturbation that goes on here ? No I don't glorify him, I just give recognition where one is needed.

They glorify Mourinho just as much, I never said they didn't

Then again, we could speculate that Arrigo Sacchi is the exact same kind of coach - all his achievements came with a brilliant Milan or Italy, while when Milan had a weaker team, or with Parma and Atletico Madrid - he won nothing.
So you see, many coaches fall under the same conclusion - which is to me not sufficient.

If I were rating the top 5 managers in the world right now I'd go:


1)Mourinho
2)Ancelotti
3)Ferguson
4)Capello
5)Van Gaal


guardiola doesn't make my list because he imo is still untested. Once he manages a different team we'll see how capable he is.


----

In regards to the debate about coaches, there are alot of variables that factor into how strong a coach actually is. Its hard to argue it.

In regards to ancelotti, I consider him strong because he's produced in Italy, Europe and England.

Ancelotti over SAF? I don't like the guy, but he's the best manager ever, in my opinion. His record with Aberdeen is ridiculous on its own, then obviously United..

van Gaal in the top 5, no Hiddink?

I can't agree there Blue.

I rate Fergie as a manager. As a coach/tactician not so much. Few managers have been given the kind of carte blanche that Fergie has at Man U. Mourinho at Chelsea is an exception. And he's worshipped by the Man U fans, who give him enough and more leeway. Plenty of his dry runs have been forgiven.

I personally feel that plays a huge role in the success of a club. How much latitude you have from your management? I think that's why Carlo's loving Chelsea life right now.

Fergie isn't really liked by the hardcore United fans much at all. There's been a couple of times they've started poorly, with a few losses or draws and they've basically used it as an excuse to get rid. They hate the fact he likes the Glazers too. But like I said, he did exceptional at Aberdeen, winning the title is one thing, but to win a European trophy with Aberdeen?

If we're talking tactician, then there's even more reason to lower Ancelotti and more reason to have Hiddink in the list.

Bah. Jose won it with Porto. The Cup Winner's Cup is kinda odd. Like Filippo said, it's only recently with the CL that it became really competitive. But credit to him. I think he's the best football manager around definitely. Probably up there with Shankly et al.

Hiddink, I don't really rate. He puts out well drilled teams a la Mourinho...that I accept. But there's nothing in there that makes me go wow! His club record isn't that great. He's done well with PSV..but only just. Not to say he's a bad coach...but he's not my personal favourite.

For me, I don't really rank coaches, since it's such a personal thing based on your preference. Mourinho's a great coach, but I couldn't support a side that play football the way his teams do.

At the same time, the tiki-taka of Barca is so over hyped, I don't fancy it as well. I like to see teams that can mix it up. It's why I love Carlo's team. They can switch from a Bach symphony to Scandinavian death metal depending on the mood of the match.

But it's personal. Other people like different kinds of football. Some people just prefer a coach who wins. So obviously their choices differ.

Fair enough. It's weird how people can see things so differently, you feel Carlo is great at switching things up, I feel his biggest defficiency as a manager is not having any Plan B. It's a funny old game.

Well the perspective with people who criticise Carlo is they all focus on his last 2-3 years in Milan. Which kinda shadows his first 5, when he actually had active support from the management.

I don't mean he switches things all the time in play. The best way to look at what I'm saying is to compare the way Milan (2002-2005) and Chelsea (present) play.

They don't play the same way ditto (that Milan's technical quality was out of this world with Rui-Sheva-Zee-Pirlo), but you notice a certain similar fluency in both sides.

You'll never hear this Chelsea complain like Arsenal about Bolton/Blackpool's tackles. They'll drill through it and come off with a one-goal, two goal win. But at the same time if you want to take them on in 'propah football' they'll step up and still rip you a new one - And the personnel will never change.

That's what I mean by team versatility. It was there for 'that' Milan as well. I mean, you knew what was coming; you know you were coming up against the 4-3-1-2...but that was that. You could park out your team jet or set all your guns blazing...but it wouldn't make a difference.

Cafu/Stam----Nesta---Maldini----Sergio/Kaladze
-----------Rino-----Pirlo-----Seedorf-------------
------------------Rui Costa------------------------
-------------Sheva--------------------------------
-------------------------Pippo---------------------

One of my most favourite Milan XIs ever. Man..what a player Rui was! And we hadn't even gotten him at his prime.

Wait, why Hiddink over van Gaal? You do know van Gaal is much much more successfull? Hiddink just can't win gold.

Hiddinks achievments are better than van Gaals, in my opnion. Though I don't count Hiddink's South Korea as an achievment.

But van Gaal reached the final of the Champions League with Bayern, won with Ajax, also played the semis with Barcelona.

Hiddink won it with PSV, van Gaal has rarely managed a 'small' club either, just AZ that I can think of, while Hiddink has overachieved both at club and International level. van Gaal's only attempt at International management failed quite badly.

Both are great coaches.

True that, ZD. I'd have to think really hard to pick one ahead of the other. Both are good!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSzNYstaAh0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FabhmafWKyI...feature=channel

hahahahaha

Boooooring.

Man up and make a choice dammit.

Okay, I take Hiddink. Having said that, van Gaal comes across as better in man management, from what I've seen of him lately. And that is a very important trait to have nowadays.

Without doing research when I hear Hiddink and Van Gaal I think of two great great coaches but Hiddink earns another 'great' IMO.

Hiddink imo is a great example of a coach who can do great things with little resources.

Agreed.

Last I checked Inter 1-1 against Palermo, they were losing but Eto'o brought them back level. Hopefully they don't win so we'll only be a point behind

...

Inter is winning... and all my words about Milan being > Inter seem like BS at the moment

That's what you get for being so cocky.

the ref is aweful, two clear penalties (one 100% clear) for palermo not given

Pastore is a fantastic player. Such a waste at Palermo.

a great chance for pastore, he hit the post!

I don't think either of them were penalty.

Serie A is gonna be a beach once again for us.

the first one was 100% clear!

Isn't it funny how when Inter need a goal they get 6 minutes added time, but when they're barely hanging on they just get 4, because less cannot be justified due to all the time wasting and subs that happened

Now let's not start clinging on such irrelevant details. Even if the referee had given 5 minutes today nothing would have changed. We should worry about our own issues rather than blame the others.

I know what our issues are, but these are details that have been going on for a while in Inter games. Yet we got 3 goals disallowed against Cesena.

Imo the paranoia of most fans when it comes to Inter is more then justified, as I believe they are more crooked then the Juve Triad at their very best.

These little details can make a difference, 6 minutes against Bologna when they were drawing and nothing significant happening in the game to allow such an added on time is more then just a meaningless detail imo.

I do believe our team has a lot of problems, but looking at the referees for answers is not about hiding our problems. We can't play well every game, Inter haven't played a single decent game this season, yet they're scraping through, while we haven't been playing well either, but have lost a game due to 3 legit goals being ruled out. To me that makes a lot of difference. I've said we were cr@p against Cesena and played into their hands, but Championship winners have cr@p games throughout a season but manage to win by scrapping it, that's what we would have done had the goals not been ruled out.

Are you sure? This of today was probably one of their best games since I remember.

so despite inter playing tougher games they still have a 3 point cushion on us already great

I wasn't all that impressed, I only saw the second half tbh, but the first half they were losing so it couldn't have been all that better. They still look scrappy most of the time.


Inter have the same core group they did as last year. Like I've been saying all along, this Scudetto is their's to lose and ours to gain, we were never favourites.

I think the fact that we currently had the easier schdule on paper isn't all that troubling, our team is still adjusting while Inter have basically picked up where they left off last season. Inter lost a lot of points under Mourinho last season as well, no doubt they'll lose a lot of points again this season, it's just a matter of whether or not we can be there to capitalise when that happens.

And let's not forget, Inter have the CWC to play as well, that puts more strain on their squad.

They had a great first half, Palermo's goal was just a coincidence. I'm not glad to say this, but Inter are still far superior to us. At least until Allegri gets his sh!t together.

I always said they had the better overall team. And the fact that they have kept the same team as last season also works in their favour. We're still in an adjustment period right now, we just don't have the time for it

lol @ wiseguyhan why is it that you never hear of inter players getting injured always ours lets hope some crazy s americans break some black an blue legs in december really hope we can overtake them by then

They do have their fair share of injuries. I remember not too long ago when they seemingly had no defenders available and had Rivas playing regularly.

Have you ever heard about punctuation?