QUOTE (Ry4n @ Dec 4 2010, 09:37 PM) 
Pathetic war mongering neocon 
Warmongering is supposed to be in one word, sweetheart.
No factual arguing this time either I see...
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Warmongering is supposed to be in one word, sweetheart.
No factual arguing this time either I see...
QUOTE (Locke Lamora @ Dec 5 2010, 12:50 AM)
Warmongering is supposed to be in one word, sweetheart. No factual arguing this time either I see...
No factual arguing this time either I see...cheers
Listen chap, if you want to play the debating game, try actually debating. It helps, trust me.
Onto serious matters, two absolute wondergoals by Nasri today, these could easily make it into the top 5 goals of the season.
Goal number 1
Goal number 2
How he is not a France regular is beyond me.
As for Chelsea's penalty... well, at most it was a yellow for Anelka, who charges into Howard and gets a penalty for it. Incredibile.
Onto serious matters, two absolute wondergoals by Nasri today, these could easily make it into the top 5 goals of the season.
Goal number 1
Goal number 2
How he is not a France regular is beyond me.
As for Chelsea's penalty... well, at most it was a yellow for Anelka, who charges into Howard and gets a penalty for it. Incredibile.
QUOTE (Locke Lamora @ Dec 5 2010, 05:27 AM)
How he is not a France regular is beyond me.
well, he is now.
Nasri is the reason Arsenal are top, n my opinion. In a year where Arshavin has been below his usual standards, Fabregas has been in-and-out with injury and with RvP barely playing a game he's carried the team. 9 goals in 15 starts is it? Very impressive for someone who more often than not plays in a midfield 3, that's as good as Gerrard/Lampard in their best years.
Err, what's wrong with Chelsea?
Injuries and backroom struggles.
2-0 down already, though the 2nd was offside.
In other news, the circus is back, Newcastle have got rid of Houghton. What a joke.
In other news, the circus is back, Newcastle have got rid of Houghton. What a joke.
Sky have just said Jol has left Ajax, so we know what is happening now.
What has happened to Villa? It's like watching the chuckle brothers playing central defence. Getting outplayed by N'Gog & Babel. Seems a distant time since MON.
What has happened to Villa? It's like watching the chuckle brothers playing central defence. Getting outplayed by N'Gog & Babel. Seems a distant time since MON.
QUOTE (Milan Are Brilliant @ Dec 6 2010, 08:49 PM)
Sky have just said Jol has left Ajax, so we know what is happening now.
What has happened to Villa? It's like watching the chuckle brothers playing central defence. Getting outplayed by N'Gog & Babel. Seems a distant time since MON.
What has happened to Villa? It's like watching the chuckle brothers playing central defence. Getting outplayed by N'Gog & Babel. Seems a distant time since MON.
Not sure what's wrong with them. Last season Collins was probably the league's signing of the season at just £4m and Dunne was dominant, now we can't defend anything in the air, it's like they're not the same people.
Anyway, I'm not going to jump on the Houllier Out bandwagon, I can't recall a team ever being hit by injuries like we have so far this season so he hasn't had a chance to do anything.
Come back soon, we desperately need you!
QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Dec 6 2010, 10:15 PM)
Anyway, I'm not going to jump on the Houllier Out bandwagon, I can't recall a team ever being hit by injuries like we have so far this season so he hasn't had a chance to do anything.
Arsenal get it every year, I remember Leeds used to as well, injuries are just a fact of the game the problem is you have quite a small back-up of real quality. You are unlucky but there's certainly been more unfortunate out there. Bar Petrov & Young, who else gets in your first XI that wasn't in it tonight? (I maybe being naive)
I mean Liverpool were without their 3 main players and it was so comfortable. Yes Villa kept the ball in the 2nd half but keeping the ball aimlessly passing in your own half when you're 3-0 down just makes the stat misleading. Liverpool should have really won by more, I recount at least 2 Johnson chances, a good chance for Kuyt after a few minutes and Kyrgiakos should have scored in the 1st half plus a clearance off the line in the 2nd.
The last few years Villa have been a hard proposition but the way they're playing at the moment I think most teams would fancy themselves and I think some of that has to fall to the manager. It's a shame because Villa are a great neutral team, especially with being one of the few decent teams in the league who genuinely do incorporate English players.
It was good to see the Liverpool fans give Houllier a good reception, even though I'm not his biggest fan (as you couldn't have guessed!). Think it's a bit strange that some fans say he is better than Rafa though, I guess they have extremely short memories.
I'd be interested to see what it was like for them, because when I say our injury woes are ridiculous, they really are.
You also can take into account Pires only joined in mid-November!
L.Young/Beye have missed 10 games between them at RB
Collins/Clark/Cuellar have missed over 15 games between them at CB.
Our CMs have missed over 50(!!) games between them.
Heskey/Carew/Agbonlahor have started a combined total of 13 games between them up top, Backup, Wiemann, has been out since the end of August.
The only position we haven't been hit too badly is on the wing. But due to our CM injuries, Young has moved inside. Albrighton has also been injured then Young got suspended, so it's affected that too. We're essentially being carried by last years youth team at the moment.
Now to what Houllier has done..
CUP: 3 games, 2 wins, 1 defeat. Took us to a Cup QF, so not really going to complain.
LEAGUE:
Wins: @Wolves, vsBlackpool
Draws: vsChelsea, vsSmall Heath, @Fulham, vs Man U
Losses:@Spurs, @Sunderland, @Blackburn, vsArsenal, @ Liverpool
2 wins in 11? Not good. But there's another light you can look at it in..
*He's had to play the whole of the traditional big 4 and avoided defeat in half of 'em.
*Aside from Blackburn, the defeats are all to fairly respectable teams, plus most of them are away.
*2 local derbies, avoided defeat in both.
*Which of those games do you look at and say "should definitely get 3 points there"? There isn't many.
So taking into account the injuries and fixtures in GHs short time here, I really can't call for his head. He hasn't even had a transfer window to sign anyone! At the very, very, least he gets until next time this year. By then he'd have had a winter to sort things out, injuries will have healed and then a summer window to start to bring in players he wants.
/RANT.
QUOTE
The players in italic have been injured (at least 2/3 games out), the players who've been injured for a long period of time are in bold. By 'long', I mean half the season so far.
GKs: Friedel, Guzan
FBs: Warnock, Lichaj, L.Young, Beye
CBs: Dunne, Collins, Clark, Cuellar, Davies (out on loan now)
CMs: Hogg, Herd, Pires, Bannan, Ireland, Sidwell, Delph, Petrov, Reo-Coker
Wingers: A.Young, Downing, Albrighton
Fws: Delfouneso, Heskey, Carew, Agbonlahor, Wiemann
GKs: Friedel, Guzan
FBs: Warnock, Lichaj, L.Young, Beye
CBs: Dunne, Collins, Clark, Cuellar, Davies (out on loan now)
CMs: Hogg, Herd, Pires, Bannan, Ireland, Sidwell, Delph, Petrov, Reo-Coker
Wingers: A.Young, Downing, Albrighton
Fws: Delfouneso, Heskey, Carew, Agbonlahor, Wiemann
You also can take into account Pires only joined in mid-November!
L.Young/Beye have missed 10 games between them at RB
Collins/Clark/Cuellar have missed over 15 games between them at CB.
Our CMs have missed over 50(!!) games between them.
Heskey/Carew/Agbonlahor have started a combined total of 13 games between them up top, Backup, Wiemann, has been out since the end of August.
The only position we haven't been hit too badly is on the wing. But due to our CM injuries, Young has moved inside. Albrighton has also been injured then Young got suspended, so it's affected that too. We're essentially being carried by last years youth team at the moment.
Now to what Houllier has done..
CUP: 3 games, 2 wins, 1 defeat. Took us to a Cup QF, so not really going to complain.
LEAGUE:
Wins: @Wolves, vsBlackpool
Draws: vsChelsea, vsSmall Heath, @Fulham, vs Man U
Losses:@Spurs, @Sunderland, @Blackburn, vsArsenal, @ Liverpool
2 wins in 11? Not good. But there's another light you can look at it in..
*He's had to play the whole of the traditional big 4 and avoided defeat in half of 'em.
*Aside from Blackburn, the defeats are all to fairly respectable teams, plus most of them are away.
*2 local derbies, avoided defeat in both.
*Which of those games do you look at and say "should definitely get 3 points there"? There isn't many.
So taking into account the injuries and fixtures in GHs short time here, I really can't call for his head. He hasn't even had a transfer window to sign anyone! At the very, very, least he gets until next time this year. By then he'd have had a winter to sort things out, injuries will have healed and then a summer window to start to bring in players he wants.
/RANT.
. He was just about starting to get back off the wrong side, by keeping his mouth shut. Anyway they're saying either Martin O Neill or Martin Jol. Neither of whom I think work with the shoestring budget we have. So this sucks.
To be fair I'm pretty sure teams like Wolves and Spurs have been just as unlucky this season in terms of injuries. The thing is (at least with Spurs) is they have a decent size squad and quality who can come in and still make a difference.
The problem is you're 16th at the moment and the longer that goes on the more worrying it gets, especially with the league being incredibly tight this year, on the plus side at least that means a few wins and you can carry yourselves up the table again. Though I can see you slipping back into mid-table mediocrity under Houllier. I would probably say you aren't good enough to challenge for the CL any-more but you should really be looking at getting into the Europa League.
The problem is you're 16th at the moment and the longer that goes on the more worrying it gets, especially with the league being incredibly tight this year, on the plus side at least that means a few wins and you can carry yourselves up the table again. Though I can see you slipping back into mid-table mediocrity under Houllier. I would probably say you aren't good enough to challenge for the CL any-more but you should really be looking at getting into the Europa League.
QUOTE
The Red Devils are in Financial Hell
“The board has considered it appropriate to operate the business since its flotation in 1991 on a largely debt-free basis principally to ensure that the company would not come under financial pressure in the event of poor playing performance . . .
“When a football club is under financial pressure, some of the key assets which it can sell are its players and, at a time of poor performance, such sales are likely to make playing performance worse. Too much leverage could therefore drive a downward spiral in both team and financial performance.” – Sir Roy Gardner, Manchester United chairman, 5/27/05
Before we get to the new stuff on the Glazer family’s ****** and pillaging financial mismanagement of Manchester United, let’s get up to speed on how we got to where we are.
Back in 2005, when the Glazer family was attempting to take over Manchester United, the existing board tried to get some sort of guarantee about the financial future of the club. They were specifically looking for guarantees related to debt levels, player investment, team selection (an initial fear was that the Glazers would start wanting to fill out the team sheets on match days), the ownership of Old Trafford, and ticket prices. In spite of the fact that those assurances were never made, the directors sold their combined 76% stake in the club to the Glazers, who in turn compensated them with £810 million. That final number, though, didn’t come directly out of the Glazer family accounts; only about £270 million did.
The remaining £540 million was paid for with loans taken out by the Glazers. Those loans have huge debt servicing costs (read: payments); up through June 30th, 2009, Manchester United had spent £325 million just paying the interest on the loan. Since the principle wasn’t paid, the loan has now ballooned up to about £700 million. Servicing that loan debt’s interest alone will cost the club about £70 million this year.
Furthermore, that loan is really two loans. One loan is about £500 million; that’s a loan in the club’s name, and is at a staggering 21.5% interest rate. The other loan is about £200 million; this loan was taken out by the Glazers, using their shares in Manchester United as collateral. The interest on that loan is 14.25%.
In 2008, the club couldn’t afford to pay this debt; in fact, the club posted a £21.4 million pound loss. In 2009, they would’ve added about £10 million to that had they not sold Cristiano Ronaldo (his sale allowed them to announce a profit of £48.2 million instead of a £31.8 million loss).
It’s not too much of a reach to say that United is hurting for cash. Last week, the Glazers announced a bond plan to raise £500 million in extra funds to help pay down their loans; they also announced plans to sell their training ground at Carrington Road to a holding company, which they would then lease back to themselves.
The Glazers seem dedicated to working through the debt problem at Manchester United. So dedicated, in fact, that they apparently felt it was a good idea to write in a little, ah, performance bonus into the fine print of their bond deal. That “bonus”, should they find enough investors, comes out to be about £130 million.
That’s right, folks: the Glazers have written a plan to take £130 million out of Manchester United into their bond prospectus.
If that doesn’t irritate you, the breakdown of where the money can come from will:
* Up to £70 million can be taken out of the club’s cash reserves (aka “the Ronaldo money”).
* £25 million would be paid in dividends.
* The Glazers would also be entitled to 50% of Manchester United’s “consolidated net income”. Last year, that would have been £23 million.
* £6 million would be paid to the Glazers in “administration in management services.”
* £3 million would additionally be paid “in respect of services provided by directors, officers, or other employees” for Manchester United holding companies owned by the Glazers.
That’s not money that’s going directly into the Glazer family vacation fund, of course. It’s being used to pay off the second loan: the one at 14.25% interest that rolls up to be a lot less than the much larger loan at a much higher interest rate. The difference between the two? The second one is in the Glazer’s name.
So, plainly put, they’re not paying off Manchester United debt with the bond deal; they’re paying off their own personal debt. Manchester United Supporters’ Trust chair Nick Towle sums up the entire situation like this:
“It is a shocking picture. These are immense amounts of money being leaked out of United to pay banks, lawyers, the Glazers themselves and interest, to pay for a takeover none of the supporters, or the United board itself, wanted.
“United’s success and profits could have been used to keep ticket prices affordable or invest in the team but instead we see this heartbreaking waste, just because one family ultimately hopes to make a profit from the club.”
It’s really hard not to agree with Nick on that.
Avoiding The Drop Blog
“The board has considered it appropriate to operate the business since its flotation in 1991 on a largely debt-free basis principally to ensure that the company would not come under financial pressure in the event of poor playing performance . . .
“When a football club is under financial pressure, some of the key assets which it can sell are its players and, at a time of poor performance, such sales are likely to make playing performance worse. Too much leverage could therefore drive a downward spiral in both team and financial performance.” – Sir Roy Gardner, Manchester United chairman, 5/27/05
Before we get to the new stuff on the Glazer family’s ****** and pillaging financial mismanagement of Manchester United, let’s get up to speed on how we got to where we are.
Back in 2005, when the Glazer family was attempting to take over Manchester United, the existing board tried to get some sort of guarantee about the financial future of the club. They were specifically looking for guarantees related to debt levels, player investment, team selection (an initial fear was that the Glazers would start wanting to fill out the team sheets on match days), the ownership of Old Trafford, and ticket prices. In spite of the fact that those assurances were never made, the directors sold their combined 76% stake in the club to the Glazers, who in turn compensated them with £810 million. That final number, though, didn’t come directly out of the Glazer family accounts; only about £270 million did.
The remaining £540 million was paid for with loans taken out by the Glazers. Those loans have huge debt servicing costs (read: payments); up through June 30th, 2009, Manchester United had spent £325 million just paying the interest on the loan. Since the principle wasn’t paid, the loan has now ballooned up to about £700 million. Servicing that loan debt’s interest alone will cost the club about £70 million this year.
Furthermore, that loan is really two loans. One loan is about £500 million; that’s a loan in the club’s name, and is at a staggering 21.5% interest rate. The other loan is about £200 million; this loan was taken out by the Glazers, using their shares in Manchester United as collateral. The interest on that loan is 14.25%.
In 2008, the club couldn’t afford to pay this debt; in fact, the club posted a £21.4 million pound loss. In 2009, they would’ve added about £10 million to that had they not sold Cristiano Ronaldo (his sale allowed them to announce a profit of £48.2 million instead of a £31.8 million loss).
It’s not too much of a reach to say that United is hurting for cash. Last week, the Glazers announced a bond plan to raise £500 million in extra funds to help pay down their loans; they also announced plans to sell their training ground at Carrington Road to a holding company, which they would then lease back to themselves.
The Glazers seem dedicated to working through the debt problem at Manchester United. So dedicated, in fact, that they apparently felt it was a good idea to write in a little, ah, performance bonus into the fine print of their bond deal. That “bonus”, should they find enough investors, comes out to be about £130 million.
That’s right, folks: the Glazers have written a plan to take £130 million out of Manchester United into their bond prospectus.
If that doesn’t irritate you, the breakdown of where the money can come from will:
* Up to £70 million can be taken out of the club’s cash reserves (aka “the Ronaldo money”).
* £25 million would be paid in dividends.
* The Glazers would also be entitled to 50% of Manchester United’s “consolidated net income”. Last year, that would have been £23 million.
* £6 million would be paid to the Glazers in “administration in management services.”
* £3 million would additionally be paid “in respect of services provided by directors, officers, or other employees” for Manchester United holding companies owned by the Glazers.
That’s not money that’s going directly into the Glazer family vacation fund, of course. It’s being used to pay off the second loan: the one at 14.25% interest that rolls up to be a lot less than the much larger loan at a much higher interest rate. The difference between the two? The second one is in the Glazer’s name.
So, plainly put, they’re not paying off Manchester United debt with the bond deal; they’re paying off their own personal debt. Manchester United Supporters’ Trust chair Nick Towle sums up the entire situation like this:
“It is a shocking picture. These are immense amounts of money being leaked out of United to pay banks, lawyers, the Glazers themselves and interest, to pay for a takeover none of the supporters, or the United board itself, wanted.
“United’s success and profits could have been used to keep ticket prices affordable or invest in the team but instead we see this heartbreaking waste, just because one family ultimately hopes to make a profit from the club.”
It’s really hard not to agree with Nick on that.
Avoiding The Drop Blog
What happened to the Ronaldo money eh United ?
Unfortunately the likes of United and Liverpool are practically immune to financial trouble. Liverpool failed to meet the same requirements as Portsmouth but got away without a points reductin and they were given more time.
If it ever got to the point where they were to collapse, a new owner with crazy money would come in. It's the sad reality.
If it ever got to the point where they were to collapse, a new owner with crazy money would come in. It's the sad reality.
QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Dec 9 2010, 05:17 AM)
If it ever got to the point where they were to collapse, a new owner with crazy money would come in. It's the sad reality.
The Premiership would be a much worse place without these sorts of teams, in terms of quality anyway.
I don't really care much about the league itself. Why should we have to run a tight ship and suffer because other teams can spend billions they don't have and just get a new owner to erase it? Just not right.
The sooner we Americanise football, the better.
The sooner we Americanise football, the better.
Sack Chris Houghton to sign Alan Pardew?
QUOTE
Alan Pardew has been signed up to be boss of Newcastle until 2016. The real question, though, is how many managers the Toon will actually have in the next five years - and whether Mike Ashley's popular 'Buy Cockney' policy is now entering its critical phase. Here are tomorrow's Newcastle United managers, today...
January 2011: After a tricky festive period, Pardew is sacked. "We failed to win the Champions League, and Alan knows it was him what had to carry the can," says Ashley. Dennis Wise takes over the managerial reins.
May 2012: Despite being unpopular with local fans, manager Wise insists that the appointment of "me old china, Jody Morris as Assistant Manager-stroke-coach-stroke-pwopah-nawty-geezah-abaht-taahn" will "show you northern monkeys how football should be done". Newcastle slump to relegation.
June 2012: Ashley is in no doubt as to why the club went down. "We went daaaaahn," he explains. "Cos we wasn't Cockernee enough at the highest levels." Barbara Windsor arrives on a five-year deal.
September 2013: Life in the Championship is tough for Babs and assistant manager Phil Mitchell, and a falling-out with Mike Ashley is inevitable after the duo fail to deliver the Nobel Prize For Literature success that is Newcastle supporters' birthright. "Leave it Phil, eee ain't worf it," screams Babs, as a tearful Phil tries to attack Ashley, but gets stuck in his panel van, which has been boxed in at the Newcastle carpark by a giant mobile whelk stand.
June 2014: Mike Ashley attempts to appoint **** Van Dyke as boss, but is rebuffed by the board who explain that "he is a fictional character". Ashley retorts: "So was Kevin Keegan." The club once again fail to win the US Presidential election, leading to outbreaks of crying Geordies in Washington DC.
October 2014: After a briefly successful period when the club is managed by An Old Joanna, drastic action is needed with the club once again struggling in the third tier. New manager Danny Dyer complains: "There's some well tasty fixtures comin'' up and no mistake, 'ave a banana. Wycombe Wanderers away? Nawty, nawty, boys. Tasty, tasty, meaty, beaty, big and bouncy them lads are. Gertcha!" However, Dyer resigns in tears "after a ball girl looks at him in a threatening manner" at AFC Bournemouth.
December 2016: Eric Bristow cannot revive Newcastle's fortunes, and they plummet into the old fourth division. With what many Cockney experts are describing from the driver's seats of their cab as "a last frow of the dice, me old son. Yeah, King Cross to Euston, of course the quickest way's via Clapham, wot are you, some sort of tourist. That's a monkey to you, you caahnt, have a good day mate." Ashley plays his ace: the reanimated corpse of Mike Reid is appointed Director Of Football and Market Stalls and the search begins, once again, for a manager
January 2011: After a tricky festive period, Pardew is sacked. "We failed to win the Champions League, and Alan knows it was him what had to carry the can," says Ashley. Dennis Wise takes over the managerial reins.
May 2012: Despite being unpopular with local fans, manager Wise insists that the appointment of "me old china, Jody Morris as Assistant Manager-stroke-coach-stroke-pwopah-nawty-geezah-abaht-taahn" will "show you northern monkeys how football should be done". Newcastle slump to relegation.
June 2012: Ashley is in no doubt as to why the club went down. "We went daaaaahn," he explains. "Cos we wasn't Cockernee enough at the highest levels." Barbara Windsor arrives on a five-year deal.
September 2013: Life in the Championship is tough for Babs and assistant manager Phil Mitchell, and a falling-out with Mike Ashley is inevitable after the duo fail to deliver the Nobel Prize For Literature success that is Newcastle supporters' birthright. "Leave it Phil, eee ain't worf it," screams Babs, as a tearful Phil tries to attack Ashley, but gets stuck in his panel van, which has been boxed in at the Newcastle carpark by a giant mobile whelk stand.
June 2014: Mike Ashley attempts to appoint **** Van Dyke as boss, but is rebuffed by the board who explain that "he is a fictional character". Ashley retorts: "So was Kevin Keegan." The club once again fail to win the US Presidential election, leading to outbreaks of crying Geordies in Washington DC.
October 2014: After a briefly successful period when the club is managed by An Old Joanna, drastic action is needed with the club once again struggling in the third tier. New manager Danny Dyer complains: "There's some well tasty fixtures comin'' up and no mistake, 'ave a banana. Wycombe Wanderers away? Nawty, nawty, boys. Tasty, tasty, meaty, beaty, big and bouncy them lads are. Gertcha!" However, Dyer resigns in tears "after a ball girl looks at him in a threatening manner" at AFC Bournemouth.
December 2016: Eric Bristow cannot revive Newcastle's fortunes, and they plummet into the old fourth division. With what many Cockney experts are describing from the driver's seats of their cab as "a last frow of the dice, me old son. Yeah, King Cross to Euston, of course the quickest way's via Clapham, wot are you, some sort of tourist. That's a monkey to you, you caahnt, have a good day mate." Ashley plays his ace: the reanimated corpse of Mike Reid is appointed Director Of Football and Market Stalls and the search begins, once again, for a manager
I'm sure those not from England might not understand half of the above, but it's an absoloute gem, well done to whoever wrote it
Alan Padrew is one thing, but for 5 and a half years? I never thought I'd say it's good to have them back, the club is a joke from top to bottom.
Not the club...Mike Ashley. You think Newcastle fans don't realise the same as what you've put. They say the want someone with considerable managerial experience and instead put in this guy??
You think Newcastle fans don't realise the same as what you've put. They say the want someone with considerable managerial experience and instead put in this guy??
Newcastle fans pushed for Keegan and Shearer to be manager. They got Keegan and they were happy - he turned their back on the club and walked out - they still saw him as a messiah despite leaving them in a horrible situation. They then got their 2nd wish in Alan Shearer, who relegated them. They aren't intelligent football fans on the whole, they want the perfect World in which their favourite people lead them to glory - it just doesn't happen. I have a few Newcastle supporting mates who just say it's the odd ones that do that, it's not - it's the hardcore away fans that take all the stupid banners!
They deserve what they get. All these years they wanted Freddy Sheppard out - dspite taking them to the QFs of the CL and pumping money into the club - because they wanted some mega rich person. Be careful what you wish for, the fans deserve the **** they're going through.
They deserve what they get. All these years they wanted Freddy Sheppard out - dspite taking them to the QFs of the CL and pumping money into the club - because they wanted some mega rich person. Be careful what you wish for, the fans deserve the **** they're going through.
*sigh* Believe me, those are the odd ones. Based on your logic, the moment we won against Sunderland and Villa I should be thrilled and talking about top 8 finishing.
But I did say, since we won big, we're gonna lose next week...which we promptly did.
No Newcastle fan has changed their biggest ambition for the season, that we'd stay in the EPL and avoid relegation. This from fans of a team who've broken a lot of records in the 2nd division.
We were 11th in the league and still all we want at the end of the season is to be clear of relegation. That's the truth.
The fact is maybe we're just the club you like to hate...it's an irrational hate(at least now)..so you try to rationalise it by saying all fans are like that.
Every club has it's fanatics. And the fanatics are often the loudest of all. Doesn't mean they're the majority as you like to think.
Oh god..please let Alan Pardew have learnt something in his time off the game.
Didn't he get banned for use the 'r@pe' word on TV?? Well, I think he's gonna get a lot more bans, coz I fear that's what's gonna happen to us from now on...
But I did say, since we won big, we're gonna lose next week...which we promptly did.
No Newcastle fan has changed their biggest ambition for the season, that we'd stay in the EPL and avoid relegation. This from fans of a team who've broken a lot of records in the 2nd division.
We were 11th in the league and still all we want at the end of the season is to be clear of relegation. That's the truth.
The fact is maybe we're just the club you like to hate...it's an irrational hate(at least now)..so you try to rationalise it by saying all fans are like that.
Every club has it's fanatics. And the fanatics are often the loudest of all. Doesn't mean they're the majority as you like to think.
Oh god..please let Alan Pardew have learnt something in his time off the game.
Didn't he get banned for use the 'r@pe' word on TV?? Well, I think he's gonna get a lot more bans, coz I fear that's what's gonna happen to us from now on...
No Jack, you are the odd one!
Is this also why you're attracted to me? Despite my obvious affection for Fay?
QUOTE (Jack Sparrow @ Dec 10 2010, 09:55 AM)
The fact is maybe we're just the club you like to hate...it's an irrational hate(at least now)..so you try to rationalise it by saying all fans are like that.
Every club has it's fanatics. And the fanatics are often the loudest of all. Doesn't mean they're the majority as you like to think.
Every club has it's fanatics. And the fanatics are often the loudest of all. Doesn't mean they're the majority as you like to think.
Then there's no point in this debate, because it doesn't matter what I say, you're going to mark it down as irrational hatred and say it's the minority of fans who do stupid things.
As for Pardew, of course most Newcastle fans will hate him. He's not named Alan Shearer or Kevin Keegan. After the Allerdyce disgrace, I really can't have respect for the fans, wasn't there like 25k outside the stadium campaigning against him being manager? God forbid you wait to see how he does (which was better than the previous manager) before wanting him out.
It's funny that Newcastle forums agree with Pardew's "top 5 club in England" comment, while every other club's forum are just laughing at them.
Well, the boggies seem up for this one..
Even if the Villa/small heath derby is more hate-filled, this is the biggest derby in the region. West Brom are at least relevant in the history of football.
QUOTE
I am absolutely frothing mate. Haven't look forward to a game so much in a long time.
QUOTE
This really is the one now. It has got to happen now. We are just coming into form, they are struggling for it and with an inexperienced sides.
At the moment, the season is looking like one of those that Villa have every few years while we look like a mid table side.
Please, Please, Please, lets make it happen now. It's our time to take the pride of the Midlands seat that Villa have been keeping warm for us since 82.
At the moment, the season is looking like one of those that Villa have every few years while we look like a mid table side.
Please, Please, Please, lets make it happen now. It's our time to take the pride of the Midlands seat that Villa have been keeping warm for us since 82.
QUOTE
Game of the season for me. Can't wait
QUOTE
It could be our worst or best week for some time!
QUOTE
Just come onto the villa thread in first time, and i am actually sat here shaking in anticipation
I will be phoning in sick all of next week if we get a result on Saturday
I will be phoning in sick all of next week if we get a result on Saturday
Even if the Villa/small heath derby is more hate-filled, this is the biggest derby in the region. West Brom are at least relevant in the history of football.
Ah, nice to get back to derby winning ways.
Young American RB Eric Lichaj what a superb debut.
Young American RB Eric Lichaj what a superb debut.
Gratz!
Liverpool losing to Newcastle,some pirate must be happy.1-0
2-1
Skrtel is horrible!
Liverpool losing to Newcastle,some pirate must be happy.1-0
2-1
Skrtel is horrible!
Did I mention how much I thought Alan Pardew would be a success?? 
This is a blip. We'll go screw up the next round. Don't worry.
@kurt: The point is not the hate towards Pardew. We welcomed Houghton didn't we. And he wasn't named Shearer/Keegan. The point is exactly what you complain about Newcastle. Firing Houghton was a crazy act. We were 12th...above Villa..with a team that's got lower table players mostly. And he was fired because they wanted someone with more managerial experience. Tell me is Alan Pardew really the answer then? You more than me know his record with clubs. He's got one promotion and one relegation to his credit.
Now it's not Pardew's fault he accepted the job, once again the protest is against the management.
This is a blip. We'll go screw up the next round. Don't worry.
@kurt: The point is not the hate towards Pardew. We welcomed Houghton didn't we. And he wasn't named Shearer/Keegan. The point is exactly what you complain about Newcastle. Firing Houghton was a crazy act. We were 12th...above Villa..with a team that's got lower table players mostly. And he was fired because they wanted someone with more managerial experience. Tell me is Alan Pardew really the answer then? You more than me know his record with clubs. He's got one promotion and one relegation to his credit.
Now it's not Pardew's fault he accepted the job, once again the protest is against the management.
Houghton wasn't really welcomed, no. At the start of the Championship season Newcastle fans wanted Shearer to continue with the job, when he didn't take it and they kept Houghton they basically had to accept it.
Did you hear Pardews reception for the Liverpool game? Says it all, getting booed before he even has a chance to do anything.
And no, Villa's team this season is worse than Newcastle's, as I said, we've had crazy injuries. Yet another 20 year old made their debut on Saturday, ridiculous. That's 6 or 7 kids that've had to make their debut this season because of this crazyness!
Did you hear Pardews reception for the Liverpool game? Says it all, getting booed before he even has a chance to do anything.
And no, Villa's team this season is worse than Newcastle's, as I said, we've had crazy injuries. Yet another 20 year old made their debut on Saturday, ridiculous. That's 6 or 7 kids that've had to make their debut this season because of this crazyness!
QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Dec 13 2010, 11:44 AM)
Did you hear Pardews reception for the Liverpool game? Says it all, getting booed before he even has a chance to do anything.
I don't know. I think most Newcastle fans just blame Ashley, at least if you heard the chants you would be able to clearly tell.
I don't think people can blame Pardew too much for this, it's not his fault.
Seems like Mike Ashley likes being the pantomime villain, every year there seems to be something he screws up. It all looked so good when he was sat in with the fans downing beer when he first joined!
---
So Arsenal flop again in a big-game about as surprising as when I look at my lottery numbers and find out I haven't won. Young, kids, will soon be good and take on the whole world no doubt.
On a side note how much of a prat is Darren Fletcher, using that Scottish charm I see. Such a dirty player and always mouthing at the ref, should have at the least been booked for barging into Howard Webb.
Clichy, you should probably just give up playing now. Unlucky with the Pen but lucky with everything else.
QUOTE (Milan Are Brilliant @ Dec 14 2010, 03:28 AM)
I don't know. I think most Newcastle fans just blame Ashley, at least if you heard the chants you would be able to clearly tell.
I don't think people can blame Pardew too much for this, it's not his fault.
Seems like Mike Ashley likes being the pantomime villain, every year there seems to be something he screws up. It all looked so good when he was sat in with the fans downing beer when he first joined!
---
I don't think people can blame Pardew too much for this, it's not his fault.
Seems like Mike Ashley likes being the pantomime villain, every year there seems to be something he screws up. It all looked so good when he was sat in with the fans downing beer when he first joined!
---
See kurt.
Mike Ashley was at the stadium, of course we were gonna boo his guts out.
So John Terry's brother is just as much of a cu.., if not more.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13...ces-affair.html
QUOTE
A young goalkeeper hanged himself after his fiancée left him for his team mate - who is John Terry's older brother.
Dale Roberts, 24, killed himself after his 25-year-old partner Lindsay Cowen had an affair with his Rushden and Diamonds team mate Paul Terry.
Lindsay left Roberts in May after Terry slept with her while staying at the couple's home.
Distraught Roberts refused to play alongside his cheating team mate at the Conference club and Terry was swiftly released and joined Darlington in August.
Paul is the elder brother of Chelsea and England footballer John Terry. His fling mirrors that of John's alleged affair with Vanessa Perroncel, ex-girlfriend of the star's England colleague Wayne Bridge.
Lindsey admitted the affair when a suspicious Dale confronted her at their home in Higham Ferrers, Nothamptonshire.
Last night, the 24-year-old was found dead in the house. Police said there are no suspicious circumstances surrounding the death.
Roberts was left heartbroken by the split and struggled to cope with losing his fiancée, according to friends.
A source said: 'They (Lindsay and Paul) became an item after Paul stayed the night at the couple's home in Higham Ferrers when Dale was injured.
'All hell broke loose and Paul ended up being released as the rest of the team didn't want to play in the same side as him.
'Dale has been heartbroken about it ever since.' A spokesperson for Northamptonshire Police said: 'We have been notified of the sudden death of Rushden and Diamonds footballer Dale Roberts, aged 24. 'There are no suspicious circumstances in relation to his death and a report is being prepared for the coroner.'
Heartbroken Dale, 24, said at the time of the affair: 'It's true, she told me she'd been seeing Paul.
'We've split up. I'm trying to get my head around it all, it's only just happened. I'm a bit messed up.
'It is bad enough she's done it at all but the fact that it is with him, one of my team-mates, makes it that much harder to bear.'
A statement released by Rushden and Diamonds said: 'It is with great sadness that this afternoon our England C goalkeeper Dale Roberts passed away, our thoughts and prayers at this time go to his parents, family and friends.'
Eastwood manager Paul Cox, who had Roberts on loan at Coronation Park in 2006, said it was 'an absolute tragedy'.
'I was only speaking to him on Saturday and he was one of the nicest lads you will ever meet, as well as an excellent keeper,' said former Kettering Town defender Cox.
'Some things are bigger than football and render it meaningless and this is one of them.
'We totally understand the decision to call the game off after his passing away.
'I have told Justin Edinburgh (Rushden's manager) that if there is anything we can do to help at this very sad time then he only has to ask.'
A club spokesman said: 'Dale was with us for several years and was enormously popular with his team-mates and coaching staff. We are deeply saddened by the news of his tragic death. 'Our thoughts are with his family and friends at this sad time.'
Dale Roberts, 24, killed himself after his 25-year-old partner Lindsay Cowen had an affair with his Rushden and Diamonds team mate Paul Terry.
Lindsay left Roberts in May after Terry slept with her while staying at the couple's home.
Distraught Roberts refused to play alongside his cheating team mate at the Conference club and Terry was swiftly released and joined Darlington in August.
Paul is the elder brother of Chelsea and England footballer John Terry. His fling mirrors that of John's alleged affair with Vanessa Perroncel, ex-girlfriend of the star's England colleague Wayne Bridge.
Lindsey admitted the affair when a suspicious Dale confronted her at their home in Higham Ferrers, Nothamptonshire.
Last night, the 24-year-old was found dead in the house. Police said there are no suspicious circumstances surrounding the death.
Roberts was left heartbroken by the split and struggled to cope with losing his fiancée, according to friends.
A source said: 'They (Lindsay and Paul) became an item after Paul stayed the night at the couple's home in Higham Ferrers when Dale was injured.
'All hell broke loose and Paul ended up being released as the rest of the team didn't want to play in the same side as him.
'Dale has been heartbroken about it ever since.' A spokesperson for Northamptonshire Police said: 'We have been notified of the sudden death of Rushden and Diamonds footballer Dale Roberts, aged 24. 'There are no suspicious circumstances in relation to his death and a report is being prepared for the coroner.'
Heartbroken Dale, 24, said at the time of the affair: 'It's true, she told me she'd been seeing Paul.
'We've split up. I'm trying to get my head around it all, it's only just happened. I'm a bit messed up.
'It is bad enough she's done it at all but the fact that it is with him, one of my team-mates, makes it that much harder to bear.'
A statement released by Rushden and Diamonds said: 'It is with great sadness that this afternoon our England C goalkeeper Dale Roberts passed away, our thoughts and prayers at this time go to his parents, family and friends.'
Eastwood manager Paul Cox, who had Roberts on loan at Coronation Park in 2006, said it was 'an absolute tragedy'.
'I was only speaking to him on Saturday and he was one of the nicest lads you will ever meet, as well as an excellent keeper,' said former Kettering Town defender Cox.
'Some things are bigger than football and render it meaningless and this is one of them.
'We totally understand the decision to call the game off after his passing away.
'I have told Justin Edinburgh (Rushden's manager) that if there is anything we can do to help at this very sad time then he only has to ask.'
A club spokesman said: 'Dale was with us for several years and was enormously popular with his team-mates and coaching staff. We are deeply saddened by the news of his tragic death. 'Our thoughts are with his family and friends at this sad time.'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13...ces-affair.html
That Terry clan aren't a good bunch are they? I imagine seeing as both have don it, they haven't had the greatest upbringing ever.
Got tickets for Wigan away on Saturday! Last time I went I was 30 minutes late because of the damn toll road, don't think we'll be taking that route this time.
Got tickets for Wigan away on Saturday! Last time I went I was 30 minutes late because of the damn toll road, don't think we'll be taking that route this time.
QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Dec 16 2010, 05:23 AM)
That Terry clan aren't a good bunch are they? I imagine seeing as both have don it, they haven't had the greatest upbringing ever.
Incredible, really. Mum gets caught stealing, dad gets caught selling coke, and them brothers steal their mates' girlfriends. What a bunch of delinquents!
QUOTE (X-Offender @ Dec 16 2010, 11:43 PM)
Incredible, really. Mum gets caught stealing, dad gets caught selling coke, and them brothers steal their mates' girlfriends. What a bunch of delinquents!
QTRTUT.
Quoted to reinforce the universal truth.
QUOTE
GERARD HOULLIER'S injury crisis is mounting with news Ashley Young has damaged ankle ligaments.
Aston Villa star man Young could miss the entire Christmas period after a scan revealed the extent of the problems.
England winger Young, 25, has played through discomfort but he must rest for up to a month to avoid further damage.
Young, made skipper for Saturday's win over West Brom, has missed only one game since Houllier took over in September.
But, unless Villa risk giving him an injection, he will miss tomorrow's clash at Wigan as well as huge games against Tottenham, Chelsea and Manchester City.
Houllier's first 15 games in charge at Villa Park have been blighted by injury with setbacks for club captain Stiliyan Petrov, Nigel Reo-Coker, Emile Heskey, Gabby Agbonlahor, Steve Sidwell and Marc Albrighton amongst others.
Young has attracted interest from Spurs and Liverpool since he put his contract talks on hold until the end of the season
Villa would demand £15million for a player who has 11 England caps.
Aston Villa star man Young could miss the entire Christmas period after a scan revealed the extent of the problems.
England winger Young, 25, has played through discomfort but he must rest for up to a month to avoid further damage.
Young, made skipper for Saturday's win over West Brom, has missed only one game since Houllier took over in September.
But, unless Villa risk giving him an injection, he will miss tomorrow's clash at Wigan as well as huge games against Tottenham, Chelsea and Manchester City.
Houllier's first 15 games in charge at Villa Park have been blighted by injury with setbacks for club captain Stiliyan Petrov, Nigel Reo-Coker, Emile Heskey, Gabby Agbonlahor, Steve Sidwell and Marc Albrighton amongst others.
Young has attracted interest from Spurs and Liverpool since he put his contract talks on hold until the end of the season
Villa would demand £15million for a player who has 11 England caps.
This is just getting stupid now. I think Friedel's the only player in the squad not to be injured this season!
QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Dec 17 2010, 03:53 AM)
This is just getting stupid now. I think Friedel's the only player in the squad not to be injured this season!
It's interesting to see they put
CODE
Villa would demand £15million for a player who has 11 England caps.
As a slightly random add on at the end there.
Almost as if they've already named their price and are trying to induce some interest in a player that, ultimately, was beaten onto the plane to South Afirca by the likes of Heskey et al.
I hardly think we need to induce interest in Ash. Clubs were all over him in August and have been for the last few years. Just your typical journo-speculation rubbish just putting a random number on a player so they look like they know something.
Funny how everyone is now agreeing, though I've been saying for years and years just how bad J.Cole is.
(Surely you must be mistaken! STEVEN GERRARD HIMSELF SAID THAT JOE COLE IS BETTER THAN LIONEL MESSI!)
QUOTE (Fishdoll @ Dec 17 2010, 07:17 PM)
(Surely you must be mistaken! STEVEN GERRARD HIMSELF SAID THAT JOE COLE IS BETTER THAN LIONEL MESSI!)
Can't stand the guy, mates always said I had an irrational hatred of him, obviously not!Just watching the end of the Bundesliga on ESPN and have been wondering like I have when I've watched other Friday night games, is it time the Premiership had one?
I mean Monday night football is so on and off nowadays that it's not really set in stone. So could pave the way for a Friday game, not everyone of our clubs is in Europe and the Carling Cup is only a few weeks a year. It could almost be like Monday night games, not every week but still a few times a season. I find it hard that fans wouldn't want to go, if they go on Tuesday/Wednesday/Saturday nights they would go on a Friday.
The FA could potentially open it up as another TV package thus making more money to put towards the Wembley bill.
Anything but 3pm on a Saturday is a bad KO time, in my opinion.
Any other times just aren't that suitable at all for away fans, either it means they have to get up way too early or they get back way too late. 3pm KOs generally means you'll get back before Match of the Day is on.
I want away to Blackburn for our Cup SF last season and got back at 2 in the morning because it was a late KO, stupid.
If they're going to change anything, it should be that a game that doesn't sell out isn't allowed to be shown on tv. If people get sick of seeing United every week, then go and watch your own team play.
Any other times just aren't that suitable at all for away fans, either it means they have to get up way too early or they get back way too late. 3pm KOs generally means you'll get back before Match of the Day is on.
I want away to Blackburn for our Cup SF last season and got back at 2 in the morning because it was a late KO, stupid.
If they're going to change anything, it should be that a game that doesn't sell out isn't allowed to be shown on tv. If people get sick of seeing United every week, then go and watch your own team play.
Wigan reckon game will be off today.
If it is called off and Blackburn/Liverpool goes ahead it needs to be looked into. By the looks of it they just haven't bothered clearing the snow as they've got a few injuries.
Hopefully the FA will show some balls over this, it's nit the first time it's happened with Wigan. Just kick 'em out the league already, they cleary can't complete EPL requirements.
If it is called off and Blackburn/Liverpool goes ahead it needs to be looked into. By the looks of it they just haven't bothered clearing the snow as they've got a few injuries.
Hopefully the FA will show some balls over this, it's nit the first time it's happened with Wigan. Just kick 'em out the league already, they cleary can't complete EPL requirements.
QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Dec 18 2010, 03:16 AM)
Anything but 3pm on a Saturday is a bad KO time, in my opinion.
Any other times just aren't that suitable at all for away fans, either it means they have to get up way too early or they get back way too late. 3pm KOs generally means you'll get back before Match of the Day is on.
I want away to Blackburn for our Cup SF last season and got back at 2 in the morning because it was a late KO, stupid.
If they're going to change anything, it should be that a game that doesn't sell out isn't allowed to be shown on tv. If people get sick of seeing United every week, then go and watch your own team play.
Any other times just aren't that suitable at all for away fans, either it means they have to get up way too early or they get back way too late. 3pm KOs generally means you'll get back before Match of the Day is on.
I want away to Blackburn for our Cup SF last season and got back at 2 in the morning because it was a late KO, stupid.
If they're going to change anything, it should be that a game that doesn't sell out isn't allowed to be shown on tv. If people get sick of seeing United every week, then go and watch your own team play.
Nowadays though with TV we have games at all times. Like Saturday lunch-time, 3pm and then an evening game. Sunday early afternoon, mid-afternoon and the 4pm game. Finally, on occasions a Monday night game. We even have Tuesday/Wednesday/Thursday games for league and Europe, the die-hards still attend.
TV has changed the league a lot, certainly since the inception of SkySports and in recent years it's become crazy, since the whole era of Prem+, Setanta and now ESPN on top of SkySports comprehensive coverage. That's just the league as well! If you don't see Match of the day you can easily go on Sky, go onto match choice and press your red button, or watch the repeat round up in the morning for the early birds or watch Soccer Sunday or watch Match Of The Day 2 or watch Monday Night Football. Beating that you can go onto iPlayer and watch the goals (think it's from Monday/Tuesday), you can watch them through YouTube, you can even now watch them through an app on your phone, crazy.
It would be hard now to be as strict as say the NFL is with it's days of play and timings, simply due to the amount of money input from TV. To be fair the game wouldn't be what it is today without it.
I don't know how they would manage that though, and Sky etc know that the big clubs get the big viewing figures, I mean most football fans will watch the Chelsea game tomorrow as a neutral, even though they are not fans of either. I just don't understand why Liverpool get on so much, I mean most of their fans probably support Chelsea/United or something by now.
QUOTE
Wigan reckon game will be off today.
If it is called off and Blackburn/Liverpool goes ahead it needs to be looked into. By the looks of it they just haven't bothered clearing the snow as they've got a few injuries.
Hopefully the FA will show some balls over this, it's nit the first time it's happened with Wigan. Just kick 'em out the league already, they cleary can't complete EPL requirements.
If it is called off and Blackburn/Liverpool goes ahead it needs to be looked into. By the looks of it they just haven't bothered clearing the snow as they've got a few injuries.
Hopefully the FA will show some balls over this, it's nit the first time it's happened with Wigan. Just kick 'em out the league already, they cleary can't complete EPL requirements.
Yeah, something clearly going on if that's the case. Points should be awarded to the opposing team, that would stop teams doing stuff like this.
It should be a requirement to have under-soil heating in this league, which I thought everyone had bar Blackpool. I do think the FA should enforce this now, every year we are getting snow and quite a bit of it. The climate is clearly changing, I mean before the last few years we got snow, at least in this part of the country like once in a blue moon. It's a bit of a joke postponing games all the time, for not a lot of reason. In the lower leagues I can understand but Premiership, you should really have the capacity to cope with it. Unless, it is literally like a blizzard.
Game definitely off.
Fortunately I had to be in Stoke today anyway, otherwise I'd be really annoyed. Apparently the pitch is fine and it's just the streets that need clearing. If a tiny town like Blackburn have managed to do their streets then I'm sure Wigan could have, they just didn't want to.
2nd straight season our game at Wigan has been off for snow, F off back to League 1.
Fortunately I had to be in Stoke today anyway, otherwise I'd be really annoyed. Apparently the pitch is fine and it's just the streets that need clearing. If a tiny town like Blackburn have managed to do their streets then I'm sure Wigan could have, they just didn't want to.
2nd straight season our game at Wigan has been off for snow, F off back to League 1.
QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Dec 18 2010, 09:56 AM)
Game definitely off.
Fortunately I had to be in Stoke today anyway, otherwise I'd be really annoyed. Apparently the pitch is fine and it's just the streets that need clearing. If a tiny town like Blackburn have managed to do their streets then I'm sure Wigan could have, they just didn't want to.
2nd straight season our game at Wigan has been off for snow, F off back to League 1.
Fortunately I had to be in Stoke today anyway, otherwise I'd be really annoyed. Apparently the pitch is fine and it's just the streets that need clearing. If a tiny town like Blackburn have managed to do their streets then I'm sure Wigan could have, they just didn't want to.
2nd straight season our game at Wigan has been off for snow, F off back to League 1.
It's a joke, an absolute joke.
The whole country stops for a bit of snow, the place is health and safety mad, well for anyone but the English, but let's not get into that...
Someone could trip over at any time walking to a stadium. I hardly see how snow is going to affect it, if it's sheets of ice fair enough, but snow isn't slippy.
FA should fine teams who can't play because of this, it's just the perfect excuse.
Look at America, Patriots, different game I know but they all go to the games, they know it's going to be a bit more dangerous but it's hardly like going into a warzone, in-fact some enjoy it more when it's snowing, and I mean really snowing. Our country is ridiculous beyond belief.
To be fair, they've called games in Italy on health and safety reasons -- a Fiorentina-Milan fixture, for example -- but that one WAS because of ice. Pitch was fine but there was an inch of ice on the streets. In the northern cities (like, say, Turin, where you can see the Alps from the stadium), games just don't get called ever. They play with the orange ball in the snow.
I can understand some cases, but this is stupid. The snow stopped an hour ago giving them 4 hours to clear the streets! This is clearly Wigan not wanting the game to go ahead. Blackburns game not being called off speaks volumes.
Oh well, hopefully my dad can get the rescheduled game off otherwise I can't go.
Oh well, hopefully my dad can get the rescheduled game off otherwise I can't go.
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