I think you need to have that natural instinct for it and DS does not seem to have that, even his crossing has been terrible in his last few games and that was considered as the only attribute in which he's better than Abate at. Yet Abate has the most assists out of all our FBs this season IIRC. And going to ask the stat king, how much appearances does Abate have this season in comparison with Constant and DS?

I think that one game showed that he's far more adapt in that position in comparison to all the games he's played at RB where he has been underwhelming and far from convincing. Making the supposedly natural CB next to you look like an inexperianced kid is not something to undermine imo. I think his qualities all point to him having the potential to be a really good CB

@ max, great post!

@ dru, I agree about the management bit, but I don't agree that max made Abate look good. All those points he pointed out are facts, qualities that Abate brings to the table, which DS simply does not, and we simply cannot sell Abate to suddenly start relying completely on DS

Sure, mostly it's natural instinct. But he still can make significant steps forward.

Terrible you say? I think you're being way to harsh on him.

But how many assists did Abate make?

I don't care much for stats.

12% of people don't.

As for Abate, a good forward-thinking WB but certainly no Cafu. He's vulnerable at the back - I felt he was weak against Bologna in that area.

DS I'm undecided on. Seems decent but lacking in experience - I'm not going to make any snap judgements on him just yet.

What in my post indicates that I disagreed?
My issue with the Abate sale is that like 99.99% of our decisions post 2007 it's not f**king football related
It's purely political


As many above have mentioned....Abate has his footballing use/value/place/whatever. I mean it's so CLEAR that DES is not yet quite ready to replace him YET

BUT management is so much about the political game and so little about the beautiful game that
They're willing to sacrifice him to bring in Balotelli drama...because they know that whether he does well in footballing terms or not, the spotlight will be in Milan again for "what Balo does next " The cynical side of me even thinks that they're actually counting on him to act up

e.g. :Balo is playing cr@p
San Siro starts making racist chants (oh you think only Pro Patria got racists??)
Balo throws his boots at them
Gets carded
Silvio splashed all over the news defending the poor Ghanian descendant that made it

I predicted this last time when we booted Borriello and got iBra. The situation is relatively similar. Borriello was actually doing well with us and forming a great partnership with Ron and Pato. Thankfully iBra kept the drama down to a couple of incidents and arguably actually played the best he could and was our leader.

So AGAIN the obvious holes in our team go unnoticed....as does the charlatan yes man coach....as does our need for a new (or our own stadium)....as does our need for investment....for our owner to get more attention and possibly a couple votes

Exactly and he won't get any more experience if he's not playing. You either play him fairly regularly (which we are, to be fair) or loan him out. Having him sit on the bench is not an option.

I didn't say he couldn't improve, but some players have it and others simply don't no matter how much work you put into it. Like Abate for example, he's not a natural defender, he's originally a wide forward thinking player, but he's worked immensely hard to become a really good defender rather then just the simple runner he was a short few years ago. Now we've watched him handle the likes of Ronaldo, Villa, Eto'o with relative ease (Milito aside that is). DS just does not have that killer pace that Abate has, nor the quick little touches that Abate does so easily to beat his man when he gets to the biline which we see him do countless times.

Having said that I think DS has more of a natural defensive intinct, which is why I think he'd be a really good CB. I don't think I being harsh because I can clearly remember feeling very frustrated with DS these last couple of games at his general attacking play, not just runs, but his crosses being all very flat and never reaching any target. While Abate has improve a lot in this aspect, made an assist for Pazzini's goal and should have had another one had Pazzini scored that easy chance Abate laid on a silver platter for him

I don't know. If I had to gues, probably 4 or 5. Kurt, where do you get your stats from?


I don't care for them much either. But we're constantly talking about DS's crossing as if no one can whip in a ball better then him while people have made it a habit of talking down Abate's crossing because last season and the one before it that was one of the only few flaws in his game, yet this season he's made more assists than probably all his seasons at Milan put together, and most likely more then DS or Constant, yet we're still talking as if DS's big advantage over Abate is that he can cross better, which the stats point to it as not being the case.

Sure, stats don't point to one player being better than the other. I absolutely HATE IT when kurt comes in with a stats as if it's the be all end all to football. A players should be judged on his contributions over an entire match imo. But in this case we're talking about just the one single attribute of both players and discussing the stats which backs this attribute


Who is a Cafu these days? Not even Dani Alves who is a good WB as well but plays in a team where his defensive abilities aren't really put to the test that much. I think you're underrating Abate's defensive abilities slightly. We've seen his improvement over these years, we've also seen him face the best of the best. I think his defensive abailities as a RB are second to none right now consider all the other RBs playing right now. Who do you have that is actually better these days? The options are very limited: Dani Alves, Maicon, Lichsteiner, who else. Very few names come to mind. I look at Man U and they have Fabio (or is it his brother) playing at RB.

I think DS has a LOT of potential. But personally I have been a LOT more impressed with him in the CB position than at RB. Filippo said that one game is not enough of an indication, that's true but he needs to get more chances there so we can really say whether he'd be good there or not. B?ecause so far you can really see the big difference there is when Abate is on the pitch versus when DS is on the pitch


I agreed with you about the management. I think you misread what I wrote. I just said I don't agree with you saying that max is talking up Abate a bit much. I feel that a lot of people underrate him a lot here in fact.


Is it right though that you have a far better player and sit him on the bench to give DS all the time he needs to MAYBE some day reach that potential.

He's gotten a LOT of chances this season, some of them where he really had no business on the pitch and we suffered the consequences because of that

But even then you should loan him out, otherwise there will be no maybe about it, he'll just never develop.

I don't think De Sciglio can improve that much in his attacking prowess. He lacks pace and acceleration, and those are attributes you don't just learn with experience. His crossing has also been terrible lately. The only thing he could improve on are his defensive skills. Like Mexes, he tends to black-out from time to time.

But anyway, as I said a few posts back, what De Sciglio does, Abate does it 10x better. We have two very good fullbacks right now in Abate and Constant, and a decent back-up for either one in De Sciglio. Why ruin everything by selling one of them?

The problem with loans in Italy these days is that the clubs in Serie A no longer want them. They want the highly more beneficial co-own deals. I think DS is too good for a loan though. Still I would prefer it if he got the right amount of game time at Milan. It's just a matter of giving him enough time to still develop at a good rate while not overwhelming him with too much responsability that could stunt that growth. I thnk at the start of the season Allegri did a good job of how he handled DS. Played him when Abate was injured or when rotation was needed. But you can never justify sitting Abate on the bench when the schedule is relatively light to play DS every week.

Be honest. Do you want DS playing against Barca for example or Abate?

Btw, don't know if you read that part of my post, can you give me the link where you get your stats from?

Zaccardo should be a Milan player by the end of the day.

He'll be Abate's replacement it seems http://www.football-italia.net/29875/abate-verge-zenit-move

We are giving Mesbah to Parma as well, at least something good.

I feel sick

What are we reduced to these days???

Zaccardo FFS?????

Only 31 years old, he can still improve

Depressing...

The funny thing would be that we sell Abate and in the end we don't sign Balotelli.

Seriously, I can't fathom this management any longer. I hope Galliani and Berlusconi burn in hell.

Isn't it clear we're no longer an ambitious club for football?
politics

Milan complete Zaccardo-Mesbah swap

Milan: 'No Kaka or Balotelli'

4.5 year deal for a player that old? Nicely done.

OMG 4.5 year deal for a 31 year old

How does the Pirlo saga even make sense at this point... "Yeah he was not accepting the one year deal, our new shiny policy, bla blah blah..."

I don't even get it. This must be another desperate deal. They just budged to his agent's demands because they wanted to make the deal... I don't even know... F@CK!!!

I've already prepared my new signature.



They can all go f*ck themselves!

Exactly how everyone feels. Nicely done

The most hilarious aspect of this deal is the fact that he got 4.5 years when he's over the age of 30. When they supposedly let Pirlo go because they do not want to offer more then 1 year to players above 30. Implementing the Arsenal model etc etc etc.

The level of idiocy cannot be comprehended any longer. And people here were saying that the extension restrictions were a good move and if the others don't get more than 1 year than why should Pirlo get it? My question is, why should a mediocre player like Zaccardo get it.

And in the end, why even bother with the swap?? Him and Mesbah are essentially on the same level of bad. I think it's just to try to show the fans that we're making "movement" in the transfer window! What a crock of sh!t!!

I seriously do feel disgusted right now. If we sell Abate because of this and say that we have an adequate replacement i don't think I can stomach watching these people destroy this club for much longer

And I'm pretty sure Allegri hasn't said even attempted to stop the sale of Abate, since he barely plays him any longer. He prefers crappy young De Sciglio.

How the hell did that happen?! And what happened to our youth policy? At least get a leader figure or someone who can add value to the whole team, not Zaccardo

But Pirlo was on a salary of 5M a season, doubt Zaccardo is anywhere near that. Such big a difference, as Pirlo's wages alone covers for 3 or 4 different squad players for us now.

So this confirms Abate is leaving to retire in Russia, does this mean we get Kaka or Balo? 7 more days till Jan 31st.

Wait a minute!! we have signed Zaccardo on a 4.5 year contract, and have given them Mesbah AND Strasser in exchange? did we also pay Parma 10m while we were at it?

Oh God, what is going on.

Don't try to make it sound like Pirlo wouldn't have gotten a cut in his wages. That was never the problem. The length was.

Pirlo earns around 3m at Juve he earned 6m with us. I think that debuncs the wages arguments

The facts are becoming glaringly obvious with each transfer window. The management certainly has no interest in the betterment of this club, they only care about recouping some of the money that Silvio and Fininvest put into the club. And to hell with the rest of it

If it helps you sleep better at night, then sure. Im not enforcing anything here, just stating an opinion.

You've been using the salary thing as an argument for every sale we've made. Pirlo's case certainly wasn't and if we want to get technical neither Silva as he obviously would have been more than happy to stay at Milan without any pay hikes unlike how you tried to paint it as if we absolutely HAD to sell him or raise his wages

It's not about me sleeping well at night. But about you for just ONCE acknowledging that not all the management do is right or in fact in the best interests of this club.

Selling Abate and giving a 31 year old a 4 and a half year deal pretty much shows that they have not learnt any lessons from the past and any talk of projects for the future is just BS.

I'm really impressed with Zaccardo's hair.

Watch them bully us into spending 10M on the other half of Sparonara(spl?) we cant even broker a reasonable deal within the league anymore

Easy now....De Sciglio is not crap...just young and raw

I am not saying the management is always right, spot on, perfect, or even '+1', they are human beings who do wrong just as we all do. Moreover, I do not use the 'salary' argument. Instead of plucking hair out of my head everytime Galliani says something to the media, or how we sell our best players. I go do a little homework on the team I love so much, only to find out that we cant afford all that. Today, I have yet to look into the figures for our last year end financials, but I trust that it should be better in profit terms this year as opposed to last year. That, thanks to having a wage cap set at 4MM.

It is nice to keep your feet on the ground, in order to build a team you need a shrewd management. We will never know what goes on inside Milan. Just that we have to live with them till they sell.


That or Berlusconi wants to sell everyone because he doesn't care for Milan. Yet he still shows up to Milanello to lift his team's confidence, but he did it temporarily so he can give us shocks in the next transfer window? ... Seriously, I'd rather base my 'assumptions' on factual numbers and constraints than on a hypothesis that the President is on a mission to destroy the product he built.

P.S. I already questioned our youth policy in the post you quoted above .. Makes no sense at all, as they gave champions like seedorf and nesta 1 year extensions, but this dodo 4 years!! Facepalm moment.

Did we sell Strasser or is this a co-owner deal?

Anyway, I think Zaccardo will do fairly. Not a good signing but better then Acerbi for sure.

And is Abate to Zenit done?

Has Abate done anything considerable since I stopped watching cause he was unbearably mediocre and frustrating to watch on year ago? Otherwise why the fuss about letting him go?

Personally, I wasn't fussing so to speak about Abate leaving. I would have preferred if he stayed to be quite frank, but Zaccardo's arrival is where the problem lies.

Why sign a player over 30 for 4 years??! Why?!!!

Yet again another lie from B&G! (...regarding our recently implemented policy of players over 30 & contracts > 1 yr)



Lie after Lie after LIE!!!

We all have an unhealthy relationship with Milan right now.

B&G are the cheating, lying boyfriend, and we are all the stupid naive girlfriends sticking around waiting for sh!t to change!

Unbearably mediocre? Seriously? Abate is by far our best fullback. Letting him go and replacing him with a 31-y-o dud on a 4-year contract is by far one of the biggest f*ck-ups this management has pulled in the last few years.

The latter does not contradict the former.

I didn't say "he's our best fullback" to contradict your opinion, but to sustain the fact that selling him is just wrong.

Well, most of his crosses do not end up in the stands anymore. some of them even turn out to be assists! other than that, I can't see any significant changes in his game compared to 2 seasons ago.

And what's the supposed fee for Abate?

Really? How can you say such a thing? He started as a right midfielder turned into a fullback. He had no sense of positioning, no defensive habits. Now he's been nothing but solid and good. Yes, Milito makes a fool out of him, but Milito is a world class striker. Yes, he's still not Cafu, but he's a good player and our best fullback choice. He has still potential to become even better and improve, he's still young, he's a Italian international and he's as close as home-grown gets. All this should make him an important component in our "new" Milan programme.

But again, if the amount of money Zenit is willing to spend reaches ridiculous heights, I'm in.

Zenit offered 10m but Milan wants at least 12m euro.

No what I meant was, him being our best fullback does not mean he's anything more than mediocre considering the rest of them are even worse.

It's generally agreed between pundits and Serie A fans that he's one of the best in the league along with Lichsteiner.

I don't know who you've been watching but Abate a year ago was already that. In our Scudetto winning season he was frequently voted in the Serie A team of the season at RB in various polls. And this was when Maicon was still at his peak.

I think you're remembering the Abate in his first season or 2 here. Where yes he was terribly mediocre and made me cringe when playing at RB. THAT Abate I would be happy to let go if anywhere near 10m was offered to us. THIS Abate though, he's easily worth a lot more in this ridiculous transfer climate where money is thrown about like it's nothing. Losing Abate right now would negate any BS talk about future projects and all that other BS from our management. And it's not like he's on a big wage either.

Let's wait.Maybe we don't sell abate, and we just got rid of mesbah.

I think you misunderstood me. I'm saying since 2 seasons ago (our Scudetto winning season), the only area in which he has improved significantly is his crosses. as for the other areas of his game, he was already "there" two seasons ago.

I may not rate him as the best RB in the league, but I don't think we should sell him [cheap] either. 15m would be good enough for me though.