But that's the point, we can't bench Abate simply because he's our best FB and most consistant performer.

Like I said to Filippo, DS is getting integrated into the team smartly right now. He's still put in a lot of minutes under his belt, he's a direct sub to our first choice RB, but he's not being weighted down by too much responsability. I don't think the situation can be handled better than it is currently being handled right now.

What if Ancelotti is unhappy with Van der Wiel?

What if Van der Wiel will be the one to be benched, what actually has happened multiple times?

There is no obvious first choice between Van der Wiel and Jallet. Ancelotti possibly rate Abate above both of them.

And if anything, also han doesn't understand it, even though he is the owner of Abate's fanclub about how great he is.

When you put it like that, then I wholeheartedly agree. So now let's go back to the original discussion, should Abate be sold if the right offer comes in? Can we afford to offload him and put our trust in De Sciglio?

What don't I understand?

The fundemental fact that Abate right now is better than DS and should be kept at Milan and not sold?

It's a baseless rumour from goal.com of all sources, I wouldn't tangle my brain over it. PSG, as you pointed out already have very good options in that area.

And let's not start talking fan clubs, because you've basically opened one for every Primavera that has managed to get a first team call up

Our management proved that they will sell anyone if the right offer comes in.

Why PSG is interested in Abate.

I don't agree. the only way to make sure DS will grow and improve his game is by giving him enough time to play and that won't happen with him being Abate's substitute. it's an unfortunate situation...


Fair enough!


Maggio is better than Abate IMO. but anyway, I can only weep for a league whose best rightback (or one of the top 3) is a player who makes defensive howlers every year without exception and probably hasn't had even 10 assists in all of his career.


1/10th? looool, and you take offense when I say you're biased/exaggerate. even right now the difference between their work ethic is nowhere near that big.


I meant should he remain the first choice and PSG come knocking for him and we decide to sell him, I won't mind... but I thought I made it clear that I want him to stay because he gives us good depth... AS A SUB!

I rather have Pastore and De Sciglio than Abate and De Sciglio.

Then you have two players for two different positions, both are young and talented.

No one said differently. I just pointed out that by playing him like we do this season we can test him, help him and give a proper chances. Just that.

I don't think he's awesome yet, but certainly not bad as well in this dire situation we're in.


I don't know, it's not likely. Why would Carlo be unsatisfied with van der Wiel when they signed him just recently? Ancelotti usually gives people a fair chance. I think it's just a rumor, nowadays PSG is linked with everyone and everyone is linked with their rejects like Nene. Especially Milan, considering the shared history/personnel.


Well, it's a unfair situation. I don't think it's that simple.

Well said (unless, of course, we can give them Robinho or Prince).

If Van der Wiel has been similar to what he has been for Ajax last two seasons, then it only makes sense he's unhappy with him.

Someone new can disappoint you know. If he doesn't bring what you want, you can't really be satisfied, can you?

DS is getting plenty of time with Abate still being here. There's injuries, rotation, etc to consider as well as DS getting time on the left as well which he performed admirably as well at.

Like I said, he needs to be handled delicately, and he cannot even be compared with SES in this regard either as SES had plenty of time in Serie B to get used to the rough and tumble of it all as well.

I don't see it as unfortunate situation but a fortunate one. We have a luxury here and people are still complaining...


What?

Maggio is a terrible defender, maybe he's a smarter attacker but Abate is by far the better defender. Also Aabte was voted as the best RB in the league in multiple forums in our Scudetto winning season and this was when Maicon was in the mix as well. So it's not just a fluke.

As for the assists, he's already made something like 3 or 4 this season, more than he probably made in that last 2 combined. So that's another area where he's showing that he's constantly improving


How do you know what DS's work ethic is?

It's too soon to tell. I was just saying that if he even shows that much effort that he'll live up to the potential he shows


But why would you sub the better player of the 2?? Doesn't make any sense!

It's like saying Juve should put Pirlo on the bench to play Pogba simply because he's a hot young prospect so it's "cooler"


And I'd rather keep both and get Pastore for a good deal.

Like I said, PSG don't really need Abate, I think Filippo explained it more eloquently in his post above. People forget that Abate is still relatively young as well. I'd personally want to keep bot him and DS. Tey're both youth products as well. Which in turn means they're even more valuable to us.

If PSG don't want Pastore than I'm sure Leo will cut us a good deal after the massive bargain Galliani handed him this summer. Maybe even make an outright exchange with Prince for no money...

You don't understand PSG wanting Abate, but are now hoping they want Prince instead?

Prince in a straight swap for Pastore...

While we're at it let's swap Yepes, Robinho and Bojan for Ibra, Silva and Lavezzi too.

Abate + Prince for Pastore

that would be like super great

Why are you guys so eager to loose Abate? I think Boateng and Robinho would be more then sufficient.

@ han

You're right. I'm wrong. I give up.

Personally I'd like to see Robinho, Boateng, Nocerino and Mesbah leave. I think we could get 25-30m from all of them. Then I'd by Dede (who's a beast) and buy Diego.

We could play:

Damn, I posted an update on this discussion, somewhere else.

guys lets chill out on Niang, he's 17 lol. As far as letting abate go, I would do it if we got pastore. Pastore is the kind of player we need and would fit perfectly in the AM position.

Pretty much. I would loan him out to some interesting coach in Italy if I could. Maybe Fiorentina but right now they see us as equals so...

wat? no way. you are the one saying accurate things

and han is contradicting himself by saying first DS is getting enough playing time, but then in same post he says it's too soon to tell what's his work ethic is - how can that be if he is playing enough?

han2503 is saying he is getting enough playing time for a 20 year old. He is saying his work ethic and his overall talent will take more exposure to be visible and then we can decide if he is good enough to bench Abate. I don't think han2503 denies that possibility. It's just not happening now. I think it's fine. Kaka was good enough to bench Rui Costa, and perhaps it might happen with Sciglio and Abate as well.

***********

Anyway onto the Winter transfer, do you guys have any definite ins and outs?

I think Mesbah is going for sure. Perhaps Traore as well? Or is it a transfer market issue? Flamini out as well?

Incoming, I expect some youngsters and some oldies as backup. I don't see any disgruntled stars who we can pick up.

Boateng is a more flashy player sort of. And it would make more sense for PSG to want him. They don't want Nene or Pastore it seems and boateng would give them some muscle in that midfield.

I'm not hoping they want Prince instead, just saying what deal would make more sense, for both teams

Either way, this is fantacalcio at its best. And I will reiterate that we should keep hold of the last few good assets we have, and that includes Abate. DS just proved me right yesterday with his performance. He is simply not ready yet to be a first 11 player and he has a long way to go before that

Lol, what does that have to do with contradicting myself?

No he can't be a sure starter simply because he's not ready yet, and yes it's too soon to tell what his work ethic is as we've only seen him over the course of a few months now.

Abate showed his improvement over the span of 3 seasons and it was staggering, also to note is that like DS, he wasn't a starter in our Scudetto winning season either, nor the season before that. He won the spot for himself by showing great work ethic and improving enough to be a starter.

So that is my point right there. DS will show what work ethic he has over time, because if he does work at it enough and improves enough to becaome a starter than he will take his rightful position as a starting RB ahead of Abate, but at this point he is far from that point as he still has a lot to improve on before he can take Abate's place. Capiche?

disagree

we should do with De Sciglio what we did with Abate, with the difference De Sciglio is more talented

Diego? The same Diego that failed at Juve? I think we should look elsewhere. And I wouldn't consider selling Nocerino, not until the season's over anyway. Personally, I think Robinho, Boateng, Mesbah and Traoré should be sold and then spend the earnings on signing:

1) Strootman, if Allegri wants to play 4-3-3,
2) Pastore, if Allegri wants to play 4-2-3-1.



Disagree.

Abate was given the chance back then because we didn't have many options on the right, since Zambrotta was either played as LB or was injured most of the season. Right now, we have a very solid RB in Abate, and preferring an unexperienced, mistake-prone youngster to him would be just wrong.

Thanks for saving me the time by answering that one. Totally agree ^^^

Also Abate wasn't really favoured during Leo's season he was mostly on the bench

we should build a team for the future

whether Abate or De Sciglio starts at RB, neither will make us win anything short term, and both are good options for it anyway; long term playing De Sciglio will pay out

we need to strength the team a lot; the ones X mentions have to leave indeed, but actually I would prefer if even more did. Since we are low on budget, using Abate to strengthening a weak position is smart, and will make us stronger

we have invested in youth nowadays, and thus we should take use of it, so losing a homegrown player should not be a problem

Sorry but I can't continue to argue this point, it's pretty obvious right now who the undisputed starter is and I wouldn't sacrifice results just so we can play DS in the hopes that he'll become huge in the future. And who knows maybe his growth will get stunted no matter how much time he gets on the pitch.

Then what? We're stuck with a decent player while we sold off a great RB for no reason. We have other cards to play such as Robinho so that we could strengthen the team.

Also you make Abate sound like he's 30 years old and earning a huge salary which is so far from the actual case

that is a biased assumption

it actually can work out the other way around as well. Last match the first goal, was made possible by DS's assist. And that's not the first time. And the more he plays, the better he will preform. And Abate himself have cost points. And that same Abate rarely helps us scoring goals.

You don't know playing who will help us more in the next game

That's DS's first assist this season IIRC while Abate has something like 4 this season already. Sooo....

Jeez, will you cut it with this De Sciglio crap? He's not ready to be a starter yet, plain and simple. If we push him too much, he'll end up making the same end of Santon. Put too much responsibility on these youngsters and then they'll eventually choke, especially defenders. Let him grow gradually, being the reserve of an established RB, whilst taking lessons from Tassotti as well. He's just 18, after all. He has a plenty of time.

It's tiring to repeat ourselves... of course I didn't change my mind, that's just good a way to end the discussion. "you're right, I'm wrong, let's move on"



Last time I checked he was 20.

Abate really has to be one of the most overrated players at Milan in recent years. He can't defend, he's terrible going forward. Though nowadays with the FIFA generation, all you have to do to impress people is be fast.

Yeah...we don't watch Milan at all..and we think abate is good because of his Fifa rating and his blazing speed.

It's not because he's fast, it's because he shows great amount of determination and work ethic (han's favorite words when it comes to Abate). true, he's a hardworker and loves the Milan shirt, but that doesn't quite make up for his lack of true quality. again it's true that he's improved a lot over the years, but despite that he's only become a mediocre/OK player at best. back in the day, he was more or less just like Antonini...

It's because he is a solid fullback.Sure, may be he did some mistakes this season(and now everyone's on his back as it seems).But, I remember him not only saving our *** defensively several times in our scudetto winning year but actually containing C. Ronaldo etc...But, no he's TERRIBLE defender.Sure, offensively..he doesn't add up much except for his speed and well his crosses were getting a bit better(see how many assists he's given this season).

It's the second best way. The best way is to shoot anyone that doesn't agree with you.

Now I know why Zed wanted to end this. If people can't stay in a normal act when people refuse to agree...

It should be dropped because neither you nor zed make good points in regards to DS. He's young and out of the youth team so you guys want him to make it so we can finally say that a Primavera actually made it. Like I said, he will either be another one in the long line of over-hyped failures to come out of our system or he'll truely become great.

But the time for saying in which category DS falls under is certainly not now, and he's certainly not ready and no where near it to take Abate's place right now. And he's certainly not good enough to justify pushing for a sale

And yes kurt. Abate is the definition of a terrible player. I only like him because he's an 80+ player on Fifa. Congrats, you've figured me out. But then again if that's what I go by I should be worshipping Pazzini because he's an 82 rated player on Fifa, thus he's obviously great

Great start.

So great, that it's all I read.

Your problem not mine

When De Sciglio can contain Eto'o and Messi and C.Ronaldo on his onesie and not get shown up by Jovanovic in a CL first round, I shall consider him becoming our first place RB.

Defenders have a harder path to establishment compared to forwards. I know. Tough life. But well, that's what he is.

You said it, not me. Not my problem if you or han don't understand really.

Great post.

My bad, but it's not that much of a difference.



In YOUR opinion.



So, I throw in valid arguments and all you have to say is that I refuse to agree. OK.

lol

It is obvious that Abate is the better player. You have to be delusional to think De Sciglio is better than Abate right now. That being said, De Sciglio can become a great player. And in my opinion he is getting more than enough opportunities to grow.

I think that the person who made yours and zed's argument invalid is the person you're talking up. DS showed how ultra green he still is during the game the other night, and when yesterday I said he was no where near ready, I didn't say it because of any bias, but because it's obvious.

Chu, I'm mostly talking to you when I say that you overhype every young player that has come out of the youth setup. If you want that kind of thing then you're following the wrong club as our youth system isn't going to be producing any big stars any time soon.