Even though he is tall (for a fullback) he has been criticized for being defensively poor, so it's kinda hard to believe it's him. I thought about De Sciglio. It was mentioned he can play in central defense too last Summer.

And about De Jong: he has played as left-central defender in a three man defense for Ajax.

And to add a name: Ambrosini has played as central defender at times for us.

Yeah, we're filled, not 6 but potentially 8 players

Anyway, according to Mediaset G. Rossi could sing for Inter. Would really be heartbreaking for me. I've always pictured him with us here.

Yeah, I always wanted G. Rossi to sing Bail Morena for us.

GdS running a story talking of us offloading Boateng to bring in Strootman and Nani.

I don't see Strootman moving in the winter and 1 will get you 10 that if we do go for Nani, we will only do so on 'loan'.

Strootman and Nani? The attack is well for a nice counter.

Midfield roles I would hand out: Montolivo box-to-box/advanced playmaker; Strootman anchor; De Jong ball-winner.

I'd change Nocerino for de Jong.

I don't get why.

Maybe because Nocerino is still the better player, even if he's entered a bad phase?

What makes Nocerino a better player than De Jong is?

You know, I will start. De Jong is the better tackler or better in anything that has to do with defense (Nocerino's defending actions are terrible/reckless - when he decides to do something), De Jong is more composed on the ball even though I wouldn't quite say that about him usually but compared to Nocerino... from midfield position De Jong is more likely giving a good pass and less likely giving a bad pass than Nocerino. De Jong will get more involved in the game, while Nocerino rarely does (that was different when he played with Ibrahimovic). Nocerino does have the better shot, I will give him that.

Nocerino, it's like after last season, he now just hops around waiting to score a goal rather than acting like a midfielder, and at the same time when he does gets involved in midfield position he's a liability.

De Jong is obviously better defensively because he's a pure DM, but saying Nocerino doesn't get involved in the game, makes bad passes etc. is plain horseshit. Surely this season he's been poor, I've been the first one to say that, but overall I agree with Fillipo that Nocerino is the better player.

Now, if we're signing those players and playing 4-3-3, then Strootman will be the DM, Nocerino the box-to-box guy and Montolivo the playmaker. Makes perfect sense. You don't need 2 DMs to play efficient football.

^ My point exactly

As long as Nocerino isn't showing it one freaking time post-Ibra I can't quite agree one bit. Also, De Jong is not a pure DM. Just because that has become - yes, become - his position doesn't necessary mean he is a pure DM. Sure, he has the qualities of a pure DM, but as long as people see him this way and only this way they will always misjudge De Jong. And I didn't know that plain horseshit stood for the truth.

I would have no issue with putting Aquilani, Merkel, Clasie and so instead of De Jong, but not Nocerino. He's too much of a liability and has no place in a three man midfield. Also, Strootman is much more than just a DM too. It's so shortshined to label both as DMs and thinking that's all they offer.


Plain horseshit, really? How pathetic can one jump in a discussion...

Nocerino would be the better fit due to the simple reason that the position you want DJ to play in is not really something he can pull off from what I've seen from him.

You either play him as an anchor or not play him at all.

Also, why remove Prince to bring in an annoying dud like Nani? Doesn't make sense. If we sell Boateng then I'd want a proper AM to come in instead

Why is our formation suddenly projected like that of Barcelona? Is our midfield THAt good?

?

you mean because it's a 4-3-3?

1,000,000 teams play 4-3-3 in the last 1,000 years

De Jong has played in front of the defense at City, for Holland and now with us, and you're saying he's not an anchor? Furthermore, your accusations of Nocerino being poor other than having a good shot don't really match with the reality. Did you somehow forget the amazing season he had last year? Like I said, he's having a bad season so far, but so are Boateng, Montolivo and pretty much the rest of our team, otherwise we wouldn't have 7 points after 7 weeks.



I don't think Nani's a dud. He's 25, and could improve in his game. Not to mention that he would come cheap. Besides, I guess Allegri (and if he comes, Guardiola in the future) wants to play 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1, and you need proper wingers for that to work.

Why would Nani come cheap?

Because Ferguson doesn't want him anymore and United are willing to sell him cheap to cash in. That's what I read on Sportmediaset anyway.

?

I didn't use the word anchor.

Somehow I thought you did, but still you don't consider him a pure DM, whilst he's been playing as such in the last few years.

Figured people wouldn't get this.

Originally De Jong was an all-round player turned in a DM, and obviously he is now what you can call a true DM, but that doesn't mean he only has the abilities of a DM.

I do see De Jong more as a ball-winner DM than an anchor DM. Strootman is a more nature anchor than De Jong.

For me, it's either one or the other. Don't play both as that would ruin the flow of the midfield. It's a typical Allegri move to overload the midfield with such players. A coach like Guardiola wouldn't even dream of deploying 2 DMs

+1 (even though I'm not so sure about Guardiola - all coaches have their fails)

It's not just about Guardiola though, give me a name of one other top coach that plays with 2 DMs and even sometimes 3 DMs

Carlo Ancelotti

You guys are not familair enough with Strootman and are thinking too black and white.

Nevermind.

I really don't think Strootman is "that" creative.

But also not ''that little''. Montolivo would be the main playmaker but it's nice when he's not alone in this.

or to use X's three preferenced roles, you can do this:
more likely anyway, I guess
Van Gaal plays with Van der Vaart, De Jong and Strootman in his midfield (same positions as midfield I posted in this reply - except for Van der Vaart plays as Montolivo's position obviously). Labeling De Jong as a pure DM is acceptable, but doing the same with Strootman would be ignoring his other qualities.

You're talking about NT football though. That's entirely different to club football. And was De Jong even called up for the Netherlands in these last 2 international breaks we had?

Yes, he has. Van Gaal usually plays with De Jong in front of the defense, and with Strootman in a more advanced position.

What difference you have in mind? Maybe you just don't know Strootman well enough, and that a statement like two DMs is not telling the whole story.

Maybe I don't know Strootmant as much as you do, but you're one that vouches for him a lot. And I believe you 100%. You say he's a top notch DM and I believe you.

So having said that, why would we need to add De Jong to the midfield if Strootman can do the job on his own just fine? Just because he's more technically gifted than the one dimensional DMs we're used to does not mean that he won't be able to fulfill his defensive duties.

So imo a midfield of Monto, Strootman and Boateng/Nocerino or another box-to-box type mid would be great for us

I can write a long story, but basicly it's about how you and me have different views on Boateng and Nocerino.

It's not about me wanting two DMs, but about wanting three midfielders who all contribute as true midfielders.

Well, let's see if we sing Strootman first, which seems to me rather unlike.

Well if I understand your philosophy it is something like:

(Creative CM) -( Half-DM+Half-Anchor) - (Half- DM + Half-Box2Box)


As our mid lineup?

Hachim Mastour (14)

Game highlights



money well spent

HOLY $HIT! This kid looks in a league of his own! I don't care that this is not Serie A, his relationship with the ball ON the field of play is phenomenal. The control, the poise, technique and vision of this kid is unbelievable... My eyes were wide open in amazement throughout the whole video.

WOW

4-3-3

three forward
three midfieldes
four defenders

When you field a front three, best thing you could do is have a strong midfield; strong as in winning and holding possession, but also feeding the attack and getting involved. This is how your forwards can do their thing rather than your opponents'. All three midfielders can win and hold possession.

a possible version is De Jong will play in front of the defense as defensive midfielder, and has to give the ball to one of Montolivo and Strootman who both can spread the play. Also, both can link up with the forwards, and score goals too. Montolivo and Strootman can both act as box-to-box midfielders as well.

another version isStrootman will play in front of the defense as anchor. He can spread play from there, and Montolivo will in a more advanced position. De Jong will play as a ball-winner, and unlike with the other version, can move all over the pitch doing that while he don't have to stay in front of the defense.

Both have their pro and con. The first version will have the two attackingly strong midfielders both in an advantage position instead of just one. Second version though have a midfielder in front of the defense who's very composed with the ball, having lowering risk losing the ball in an essential position.

Your setup would work going forward perhaps. But I'm not convinced of the balance of that formation when we're in defence. I think we would be very susceptible to a counter that uses width.

Really?

Both Strootman and De Jong are extremely strong in defending, and also Montolivo defends well. El Shaarawy our left forward/winger tracks back a lot, and whoever plays as right forward/winger should do as well. And it's not like all three midfielders will only defend in the middle. In version one for example, Strootman can defend on the right side, same goes for De Jong in version two, and what more is possible... point is that there are many players who can and will defend.

Play Mastour!

It's not so simple. By defintion in a counter,

I'm assuming that Strootman and Monto will both be caught high up the field. Essentially we will have 4 at the back perhaps including De Jong.

It can of course be countered if as you say, our forwards pressure really hard when they lose the ball. But will they do that?

Pazzini doesn't. Pato doesn't. We know that prospective Nani doesn't. Robinho is having fitness issues. So basically we're one SeS injury away from having a non-defensive forward line.

That's your assuming...

I know I'm assuming one SES injury could put us backwards, but considering the amount of games we're making the young lad play, I think it's not too much to expect. Esp. with our injury record.

rolleyes

Robinho tracks back a lot. Alright, he may leave. Bojan tracks back a lot. Alright, he may not stick. We will see who will be the other winger, but to assume it will a lazy ***... that's simply you don't even want. You just name Pazzini and Pato, and believe in a world only existing of them. When El Shaarawy is out, you can put Emanuelson as LW. He will track back a lot there as well. You can even field De Sciglio as RW when and if options get thin. Boateng can be fielded on the wing as well, and he tracks back a lot too. Pazzini won't play on the wing anyway, and probably should be benched while Pato should play as central striker ideally.

Yes..but to me it seems like you're sacrificing too much from our forward line in a desperate bid to stick to that mid-field line.

I'm not saying it is hopeless. But it certainly cannot be our be-all and end-all formation.

Although I don't agree with the midfield CHU posted (for me, Nocerino over De Jong any day of the week), saying it is prone to counterattacks is an overstatement. A midfield consisting of De Jong, Strootman and Montolivo is very strong defensively, the two wingers shouldn't even track back that much.

Sure if we consider a DM as your stereotypical DM in a computer simulation. In real life I have found Montolivo to be a clumsy judge of a tackle, De Jong to be oft times rash and out of position, and Strootman to get a bit overrun.

Is there a resolution for this? Nope. Obviously we don't have the quality to make a tactically bullet proof squad.